Cursed Left Turn

[azoomm]

How do we stop it?

How do we get people to stop saying "I never saw them?"

How do we keep cagers from turning left in front of motorcycles??

And, I'm serious. I've had one too many friends get clipped. One too many hurt, mamed, killed then the driver gets a failure-to-yield ticket and go about their life in the bubble cursing those dangerous motorcycles.

I'm so done with it.

Is it education? Bumper stickers aren't working.

[101lifts2]

Quit doing 80mph in a 30mph zone. lol

The biker has to be aware of what is going on around him, know how to swerve, how to cut between cars and how to brake. Car drivers are not going to change and most bikes that get a car turning left in front of them are usually speeding.

[azoomm]

Try again.

Two incidents that I'm in some way related to.... one happened in front of me at an intersection. The other happened to one of my best friends yesterday. She was following her father only to be Tboned.

Neither was speeding.

Neither was doing anything other than just traveling, and neither had the opportunity to *swerve*. We can't treat EVERY car like it is a barking dog.

Do we go big or go home on this?? PSAs??

[jtemple]

Quit doing 80mph in a 30mph zone. lol

The biker has to be aware of what is going on around him, know how to swerve, how to cut between cars and how to brake. Car drivers are not going to change and most bikes that get a car turning left in front of them are usually speeding.Most motorcycle accidents on the street are at speeds of 30 mph or less, and most of those are the fault of a cager.

I am frequently disgusted at the inattentiveness of cagers, both while I'm in my cage, and while I'm on my bike.

Part of me thinks that there should be some sort of harsher penalty for being at fault when a motorcyclist is injured.

[ericr]

Until cops start enforcing driving laws other than speeding and people start paying large fines and losing licenses for accidents nothing will change. It is amazing the difference between driving here in the States and in Germany. Germany has a tiered license system and major fines for causing an accident especially if it's from negligence (talking on a phone, eating, painting your toe nails etc.)

It's a risk to even get out of bed and walk out your front door, I accept that risk to ride on the street and I can live with it. I decided a while back that life isn't worth living if I can't enjoy it along the way. I've got to die from something, doesn't matter to me what it is really :idk:

[Curb]

i agree with you, azoomm. i was doing the speed limit when that lady pulled out in front of me in january and all she kept telling the police was that i ran a red light (yes the light had turned red, but after i went through it). then the cop asked her if she was watching the road or the light and that is when the cop knew that she wasn't paying attention to the road. she was ticketed and yes she went upon her business and i went to the hospital and my bike went to the junk yard.

good luck trying to get something done...i'll help anyway i can from my corner of the country

[Dnyce]

make every left turn have its own signal light. not just the big streets, all of em. cant turn left without a green arrow. that would cause alil more to alot more traffic, but drastically stop to completely eliminate that "left turn accident"

every fucking week-no, every fucking day, on my 8mile(yes thats roundtrip) commute to work, some stupid motherfucker pulls out in front of me, or makes a left turn in front of me where i have to cut the throttle and get on the brakes. a few times ive had to swerve/split lanes, or end up as a hood ornament. so far so good. and this is only in 8miles. 15 freakin mins. this shit is ridiculous. we as riders have to be aware, but theres only so much we can control.

[pickle.of.doom]

I was just reading in one of this months magazines... can't remember which one, either CW, PB, or RRX... but anyway, they had an article on a system the japanese are working on that would warn cars of approaching motorcycles... but it involved a lot of electronics, and I assume some sort of beacon on all mc's, but it was an interesting article nonetheless. I'll see if I can find it again.

[Quick281]

Sadly it is all part of the risk. Tonight I had to get on the brakes to stop for a red light and almost got rear ended. There was screetching, tire smoke and less than a foot to spare when I looked behind me. All I can say is that my brake light flasher may have just paid itself off.

I try to do everything I can to reduce my risk such as brake light flasher, head light brighter, bright orange backpack at all times but I still know that people won't see me.


Sucks but we are far too much of a minority to get anything done.

[Curb]

make every left turn have its own signal light. not just the big streets, all of em. cant turn left without a green arrow. that would cause alil more to alot more traffic, but drastically stop to completely eliminate that "left turn accident"

i would say that about 95% of the lights here in florida have a left turn signal light and it doesn't do shit. people still turn infront of bikes. if its not at a left turn its up the road a little when they are making a uturn. hell my accident was because the asshole made a right turn into the left lane cutting cross two lanes of traffic

[azoomm]

i would say that about 95% of the lights here in florida have a left turn signal light and it doesn't do shit. people still turn infront of bikes. if its not at a left turn its up the road a little when they are making a uturn. hell my accident was because the asshole made a right turn into the left lane cutting cross two lanes of traffic

That's what I was thinking :( In fact, one of the accidents I listed above was AT an intersection. It just didn't have a protected turn light [arrow].

Blood and gore - or showing little Sally without a mommy doesn't work, just look at Drunk Driving PSAs. Maybe making us look more "real", that we aren't just a wild pack of 2-year-old punk hooligans.

[Racerboy]

After surviving one of these head-on crashes 8 1/2 years ago, I have modified my riding considerably....

If there are three lanes of travel, I try to not use the Left lane at all...this way if they start to dart out, they might have a chance to stop or reconsider and if I am not in the fast/left lane, I have that much more of a chance.

I ALWAYS ride with my bright lights on during the day time hours no matter who it pisses off in the process. One man who was doing a u-turn in front of me after a brief hesitation, actually stopped at the next traffic light to tell me the brights might be on....I told him they were and asked him, "Could YOU see me?" He told me yes, and I explained that it was worth it them, otherwise I might be dead.

Speeding in town on local surface streets is just a Russian Roulette game waiting for a location to happen. I don't like to speed when I am in city traffic, too many potential hazards with too many inattentive cager's out there to make it worth while.

[Amorok]

I ride as cautiously as possible, I wear brightly colored clothes and helmet, I have a taillight flasher, and I'm as vigilant as possible. People still try to kill me with their cars. I rode all day yesterday and had four or five close calls. The ones that really piss me off is when someone looks at me and pulls out to try and beat me somewhere. When that shit happens I get right up next to them and point, to let them know I see them. Then I give them the "you've been naughty" index finger wave. I want them to know they fucked up.

Maybe by making ourselves more acceptable to people we've done ourselves a disservice. People aren't afraid of us, so they don't care about pissing us off. Maybe if they thought we were all still 1%'ers they wouldn't fuck about quite so much.

[marko138]

We just did a story last week about a girl who plowed over a motorcyclist as HE made a left hand turn. He claimed to have a left turn arrow. He suffered two broken legs...and no medical insurance...which is another story altogether. As the police arrived the girl who hit him left the scene.

It was being billed as a hit and run.

Come to find out...that the driver of the motorcycle was DRUNK...and the girl had a green light. So the motorcyclist actually turned left in front of HER. Boom. Guying being charged with DUI and girl not being charged.

[HRCNICK11]

Large civil suits get lots of press. If you can sue the city for there inablity to prove a safe traffic light that would get lots of press. But would also cost lots in Lawyer fees. Want to be noticed it will cost you.

I had a cop let a girl go with out even checking her papers after she failed to yeald the right of way to me. She had a stop sign and I did not the cop was behind me and almost smashed me between his front bumper and the girls door. I was pretty upset with the cop and almost got taken to jail as the girl drove away. He had the nerve to tell me if I did not get my bike out of the intersection he would ticket me for impeading traffic. I picked my bike off the ground and rode straight to the police station and filed a report on the officer.

[Curb]

Large civil suits get lots of press. If you can sue the city for there inablity to prove a safe traffic light that would get lots of press. But would also cost lots in Lawyer fees. Want to be noticed it will cost you.

I had a cop let a girl go with out even checking her papers after she failed to yeald the right of way to me. She had a stop sign and I did not the cop was behind me and almost smashed me between his front bumper and the girls door. I was pretty upset with the cop and almost got taken to jail as the girl drove away. He had the nerve to tell me if I did not get my bike out of the intersection he would ticket me for impeading traffic. I picked my bike off the ground and rode straight to the police station and filed a report on the officer.i asked my lawyer about suing the city since where i was hit is actually a very busy intersection and is extremely poorly lit. they told me that the risk out weighs the reward when trying to sue a city. they have experts upon experts to back them up and if you lose guess who has to pay those experts. but he also said that i should look into how many accidents have occurred there...which are quite a few. as soon as i have a spare minute i am going to go over to the police station and get those figures

[speedylocksmith]

If there are three lanes of travel, I try to not use the Left lane at all...this way if they start to dart out, they might have a chance to stop or reconsider and if I am not in the fast/left lane, I have that much more of a chance.

I do the same exact thing for the left AND the right lane. If I have a choice, I usually ride in the middle lane because it can happen just as easy from someone making a right turn also. It helps limit the odds IMO. Every car that has an opportunity to turn into my path from a connecting road gets my attention. My eyes are ALWAYS on them until I pass them. I usually cover the brake going through intersections or passing cars that are about to come out into the street I'm on.

[Smittie61984]

Most motorcycle accidents on the street are at speeds of 30 mph or less, and most of those are the fault of a cager.
.

I remember seeing stats (For Georgia atleast) that showed that most motorcycle accidents are riders own faults.

But most motorcycle accidents involving more than one vehicle was almost always the fault of the cage.

Unless we outright ban cell phones, radios, make up, reading, writing, friends, etc. Things are never going to change.

We could do PSAs but how often do we watch a PSA and think nothing about it once American Idol or Sienfield come back on 10 seconds later?

[racedoll]

The biker has to be aware of what is going on around him, know how to swerve, how to cut between cars and how to brake. Car drivers are not going to change and most bikes that get a car turning left in front of them are usually speeding.

I agree, but it just sucks that we have to be so over-conscious of our surrounding. We have to be at the height of defensive driving, yet cagers can just be so absent-minded it's pathetic.

Really though, even in a car around this area you have to be defensive. We have people run stop signs left and right.... my sister was a victim of it a couple weeks ago. Someone ran the stop sign, clipped her - CRV totaled... yet the other girl was able to drive her car away.

make every left turn have its own signal light. not just the big streets, all of em. cant turn left without a green arrow. that would cause alil more to alot more traffic, but drastically stop to completely eliminate that "left turn accident"

Even if they put up left turn lights, you still have to contend with those that turn right on red. I had a green light and some douche turned right on red in front of me. It wasn't even close, but would have been had I not been paying attention.

[pauldun170]

Left turns....how bout instead of relying on the typical American driver to uphold there end of the bargain we just treat any oncoming car as someone who will ignore rules of the road and end up in your path. If you are making the left...Don't make the turn untill you verify the car is either slowing down, (or stopped if appropriate)...and the driver is looking at ya. If this cannot be verified, plan the turn based on the idiots will be accelerating slightly and aiming for you so play a bit of frogger.

If you notice a car bout to make a left..watch the tires...see where they are pointed..look at the driver..slow down a bit (as in speed limit) change lanes, stand up sit down..tap the hi beam or horn until you ARE SURE the eyes of the driver are on you or..if its a two laner...use another car for linebacker.

Until then you can't do a damn thing. you can ask every driver on the road to be be careful..and they wioll respond "it's those stupid motorcycles" and then start off with a rant about stunters or asshats who do 120 in a 40 in flipflops.


in other words

As a biker....if you get in an accident...it's your fault. Your responsibilty to pay special attention.
(excluding fucking deer popping out of nowhere....i swear those fucker use catapults from the side of the road...that and squirrels

[Smittie61984]

(excluding fucking deer popping out of nowhere....i swear those fucker use catapults from the side of the road...that and squirrels

Sqirrels are 10pts each. I run those bad boys over.

Deer. I hope every single one of those fucking bastards gets the same treatment that Bambi's mom got. Including Bambi. They are the most useless creature that God or Darwin ever created (Except maybe and a big maybe the Mosquito)

[Cutty72]

Sqirrels are 10pts each. I run those bad boys over.

Deer. I hope every single one of those fucking bastards gets the same treatment that Bambi's mom got. Including Bambi. They are the most useless creature that God or Darwin ever created (Except maybe and a big maybe the Mosquito)

But they taste good. Yum.

[JoshuaTree]

Handlebar mounted trigger for forward facing Claymores. :idk:

(Not my idea, per se, but one offered to me by a friend who served a short while in sunny S.E. Asia)... ;)

[Mr Lefty]

The fact is... there is NOTHING that you can do to prevent it... as long as people are still allowed to drive and eat, talk on phones, play with the radio, fuck with the GPS, put on makeup, read directions, or stare off at any billion distractions on the road...

All you can do is flood them with info... and even that doesn't do shit.


what I'd LOVE to see... is making it madatory for every person who wants to get a drivers license... to go through the MSF course. give them first hand experience on just how naked you are out there even in full gear.




On your bike... there's not much you can do besides be hyper alert at all times... but fact is... that's impossible... your gonna let your attention slip just for a second... for that bike the goes by the other way, the blond walking down the street in a 3" skirt :D, the smell of good BBQ, or just a random thought jumps to the front of your mind.

but you can try to increase your visiability... by bright colored gear, allowing extra following distance, riding in the correct area of the lane, riding with your brights on all the time (I'll take a ticket if it helps keep me from being a hood ornament) or giving a little twitch of the handle bars to move you and your lights to help keep you from blending in with your back ground.

[Archren]

Handlebar mounted trigger for forward facing Claymores. :idk:

(Not my idea, per se, but one offered to me by a friend who served a short while in sunny S.E. Asia)... ;)

Fuck yes. :rockwoot: The bitches say "Aim towards enemy" for a reason. :lol:

[Smittie61984]

There is a solution. And maybe if the fine ladies of this forum start out then it will spread like wildfire. Just don't forget a camera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLakKbZYmpE

[Archren]

There is a solution. And maybe if the fine ladies of this forum start out then it will spread like wildfire. Just don't forget a camera.

Sad part is... target fixation.. and now you don't have ANY gear except your helmet. :panic: :lol:

[Mr Lefty]

Sad part is... target fixation.. and now you don't have ANY gear except your helmet. :panic: :lol:

BOOM Clear Leathers! :D

[Curb]

There is a solution. And maybe if the fine ladies of this forum start out then it will spread like wildfire. Just don't forget a camera.
of course this was in Europe somewhere. here we are just seen as a nuisance

[Dnyce]

in other words

As a biker....if you get in an accident...it's your fault. Your responsibilty to pay special attention.


bullshit.

[lauralynne]

BOOM Clear Leathers! :D

from invisible cows?! You're brilliant!!

[Mr Lefty]

hey... I came up with the idea... you guys make it happen... :D

[Smittie61984]

Sad part is... target fixation.. and now you don't have ANY gear except your helmet. :panic: :lol:

Sometimes you just have to take one for the team. And think of the children.

[askmrjesus]

How do we stop it?

How do we get people to stop saying "I never saw them?"


Sadly, we don't, because we can't.

We can run PSAs and put bumper stickers on our bumpers until we're blue in the face, but we will never be able to stop humans from being the self-absorbed cretins they are.

Yes, we can make ourselves more visible. We can take all the recommended precautions. We can ride defensively and "safely", but we will never be able to overcome the rampant idiocy of the general public.

It's like the man at the MIXER ride says; "Keep your head and arms inside the MIXER at all times", but we don't.

We ride motorcycles.

JC

[G-Rex]

I've had people turn left in front of me many times. We all have. It varies from *WTF are you doing?!* to *Holyshit that guy almost hit me!*

I've given it thought. There's only one thing I've come up with that might even have a chance, and that's a stretch.

Before you can even *qualify* for an auto driver's license, required everyone to ride a motorcycle for a given period of time. Say, 2 years? If EVERYONE had to ride, and subject themselves to the same thing we do day in and day out, maybe, just maybe, they would be a little bit more attentive.

I know thanks to my motorcycle riding, and constantly scanning for cars, animals, etc. that it does make me a much more aware driver.

While I know this would never happen in reality, I think it's about the only thing that would even have a chance of helping.

[Rider]

In Michigan there are lots of roads that don't allow you to turn left. You have to turn right and then do a u-turn. We call them Michigan lefts. As roads get reconstructed, some of them are being reconfigured to this style. It's sometimes a pain in the ass but it is safer.

http://www.michiganhighways.org/images/michigan_left.gif

http://www.michiganhighways.org/indepth/michigan_left.html

[MILK]

I have reflective tape lining the edge of my windscreen, on the rear of the bike, and all over my helmet. As I am approaching intersections or places where people are turning in and out, I move from side to side within my lane to make myself more visable. Hopefully it helps.

However I've had people turn left (u-turn) directly in front of me while driving my CAR. So :idk:

I don't think making us look more human will help much either. Why? Because I've had strangers berate me for having the audacity of being a mom AND a motorcyclist. How dare we risk-taking motorcyclists have children, right?

[Dnyce]

In Michigan there are lots of roads that don't allow you to turn left. You have to turn right and then do a u-turn. We call them Michigan lefts. As roads get reconstructed, some of them are being reconfigured to this style. It's sometimes a pain in the ass but it is safer.

http://www.michiganhighways.org/images/michigan_left.gif

http://www.michiganhighways.org/indepth/michigan_left.html

unless theres a signal there, it appears the u turn part is now very similar to the "cursed left turn"

[azoomm]

Sadly, we don't, because we can't.

We can run PSAs and put bumper stickers on our bumpers until we're blue in the face, but we will never be able to stop humans from being the self-absorbed cretins they are.

Yes, we can make ourselves more visible. We can take all the recommended precautions. We can ride defensively and "safely", but we will never be able to overcome the rampant idiocy of the general public.

It's like the man at the MIXER ride says; "Keep your head and arms inside the MIXER at all times", but we don't.

We ride motorcycles.

JC

I know that.

I don't want to know that.

But, I know that.

Fuck.

[Particle Man]

The fact is... there is NOTHING that you can do to prevent it... as long as people are still allowed to drive and eat, talk on phones, play with the radio, fuck with the GPS, put on makeup, read directions, or stare off at any billion distractions on the road...

All you can do is flood them with info... and even that doesn't do shit.


unfortunately, this is very well said and very true.

[OreoGaborio]

Can't stop it... never will. Only thing you can do is ride w/ your highbeams on during the day & wear a jacket like this one....

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc125/Gregory_Jarvis/stuff/pete.jpg



Don't mind the Shitty McCrappy Bike. It's just an old Suzuki GN125 range scoot. Kinda fun actually :p

[Smittie61984]

I have reflective tape lining the edge of my windscreen, on the rear of the bike, and all over my helmet. As I am approaching intersections or places where people are turning in and out, I move from side to side within my lane to make myself more visable. Hopefully it helps.


I've always heard people talk about getting high viz yellow. I am no longer a believer in wearing it for motorcycle riding. Working for a Sub of AT&T we get sent out on broke poles. On this one right here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/atlantasmittie84/sets/72157609127983878/) (Poles got yanked down at noon and we left at 5:30am) I remember one of the AT&T boss men coming down the road. The road was also shut down by police so we could roam wherever we wanted too. My partner (Big 6'7" guy in one of the pics) had on his yellow DOT class 2 high viz vest on. Camera had a night setting so it's darker than it looks. But the Bell man said that the only thing he saw of my buddy and anyone was the reflective strips. That included the AT&T orange vests.

Reflective stickers are the key. As for high viz yellow. We have a saying about that at our work. The Yellow is so they can find the body after it's been hit.

[marko138]

Reflective vests help...but people are still not gonna pay attention if they dont want to. I had co-worker who was shooting the scene of an accident. Flashing lights everywhere, police cars, orange cones everywhere.

Some lady, stone drunk, fucking plowed into him. Almost killed him. He spent weeks in the hospital.

Some people just AREN'T gonna pay attention.

[Rider]

unless theres a signal there, it appears the u turn part is now very similar to the "cursed left turn"

Yes more often than not there is a signal at the u-turn point.

[wildchild]

I've had 'em do it when I was wearing a yellow jacket and riding a yellow bike and just for contrast wearing a bright red helmet. color doesn't matter.

idiots in cages will always be idiots in cages. Best "cure" is to indeed treat every cage on the road as though it's being driven by a complete moron who was barely able to feed themselves this morning. As they say in training courses always, ALWAYS be looking for the exit strategy. It sucks and yes it takes away a little from the enjoyment of the ride but we are the ones at risk, and the only ones who care about us is ourselves.

[Archren]

I've had 'em do it when I was wearing a yellow jacket and riding a yellow bike and just for contrast wearing a bright red helmet. color doesn't matter.

idiots in cages will always be idiots in cages. Best "cure" is to indeed treat every cage on the road as though it's being driven by a complete moron who was barely able to feed themselves this morning. As they say in training courses always, ALWAYS be looking for the exit strategy. It sucks and yes it takes away a little from the enjoyment of the ride but we are the ones at risk, and the only ones who care about us is ourselves.

That's kinda where I'm at.. I always treat cagers like they're all out to get me.

But at the same time.. us motorcyclists are still human. Even if we're on top of the game 99% of the time, there's still that 1% where maybe we're looking in one mirror and the idiot barrelling down on us is coming at us from the other direction.. things happen SO fast, and we, as imperfect beings, have only so much in the way of resources as far as reaction time and training to help mitigate the odds.

I've had heated discussions with people who didn't believe in taking the MSF more than the first time.. I for one don't see how it can *hurt* to refresh one's training, and occasionally practice things (panic stops, quick maneuvers, etc.), especially when you have a new bike. But that being said... all it does is lower the chances, it doesn't get rid of the danger altogether.

It's one of many choices we make in life.. I think people who jump out of perfectly good air planes or jump off rock cliffs are nucking futs (and I'm sure people think the same of me for riding bikes or being in the military), but it's something that they enjoy that fulfills them. Motorcycling is that way for me. I understand the risks, I've been in an accident that could have been fatal if I hadn't had friends who were able to call for help right away.. but *my* personal choice (being as I don't really have the means by which to ride on a track whenever I want... *coughZoomiecough* Love ya... mean it :D ) is to continue riding in spite of the risks.

It's like anything else in life. You pays your money, you takes your chances... :idk:

[Mr Lefty]

that's kinda where i'm at.. I always treat cagers like they're all out to get me.

But at the same time.. Us motorcyclists are still human. Even if we're on top of the game 99% of the time, there's still that 1% where maybe we're looking in one mirror and the idiot barrelling down on us is coming at us from the other direction.. Things happen so fast, and we, as imperfect beings, have only so much in the way of resources as far as reaction time and training to help mitigate the odds.

I've had heated discussions with people who didn't believe in taking the msf more than the first time.. I for one don't see how it can *hurt* to refresh one's training, and occasionally practice things (panic stops, quick maneuvers, etc.), especially when you have a new bike. But that being said... All it does is lower the chances, it doesn't get rid of the danger altogether.

It's one of many choices we make in life.. I think people who jump out of perfectly good air planes or jump off rock cliffs are nucking futs (and i'm sure people think the same of me for riding bikes or being in the military), but it's something that they enjoy that fulfills them. Motorcycling is that way for me. I understand the risks, i've been in an accident that could have been fatal if i hadn't had friends who were able to call for help right away.. But *my* personal choice (being as i don't really have the means by which to ride on a track whenever i want... *coughzoomiecough* love ya... Mean it :d ) is to continue riding in spite of the risks.

It's like anything else in life. You pays your money, you takes your chances... :idk:

eggs-fuck'n-zackly

[Particle Man]

Don't mind the Shitty McCrappy Bike. It's just an old Suzuki GN125 range scoot. Kinda fun actually :p

don't bust on those, they're fun as hell to ride.

[azoomm]

That's kinda where I'm at.. I always treat cagers like they're all out to get me.

But at the same time.. us motorcyclists are still human. Even if we're on top of the game 99% of the time, there's still that 1% where maybe we're looking in one mirror and the idiot barrelling down on us is coming at us from the other direction.. things happen SO fast, and we, as imperfect beings, have only so much in the way of resources as far as reaction time and training to help mitigate the odds.

I've had heated discussions with people who didn't believe in taking the MSF more than the first time.. I for one don't see how it can *hurt* to refresh one's training, and occasionally practice things (panic stops, quick maneuvers, etc.), especially when you have a new bike. But that being said... all it does is lower the chances, it doesn't get rid of the danger altogether.

It's one of many choices we make in life.. I think people who jump out of perfectly good air planes or jump off rock cliffs are nucking futs (and I'm sure people think the same of me for riding bikes or being in the military), but it's something that they enjoy that fulfills them. Motorcycling is that way for me. I understand the risks, I've been in an accident that could have been fatal if I hadn't had friends who were able to call for help right away.. but *my* personal choice (being as I don't really have the means by which to ride on a track whenever I want... *coughZoomiecough* Love ya... mean it :D ) is to continue riding in spite of the risks.

It's like anything else in life. You pays your money, you takes your chances... :idk:

When have you known me to ever just accept something for what it is?

I'm letting a marketing firm look at it from their own perspective. I don't want to tell them how to figure it out. I want to see what they come up with.

Yes, I do ride at the track.

But, I have a daughter that is about to get her license. She is more precious to me than my own life... I'm out there for her.

[RACER X]

modulating headlights
bright clothing
flashing hi beams
moving in the lane, so your headlights draw attention
covering the brakes
assume they are going to turn

[askmrjesus]

When have you known me to ever just accept something for what it is?

I'm letting a marketing firm look at it from their own perspective. I don't want to tell them how to figure it out. I want to see what they come up with.

Yes, I do ride at the track.

But, I have a daughter that is about to get her license. She is more precious to me than my own life... I'm out there for her.

Maybe a catchier slogan would help.

How about a sticker that says, "If you turn left in front of my Daughter's motorcycle, I will track you down and kill you."

JC

[Mr Lefty]

How about using a lot of the ads from europe. They are MUCH more motorcycle aware...

Things like "Look twice, save a life"

[Smittie61984]

How about a sticker that says, "If you turn left in front of my Daughter's motorcycle, I will track you down and kill you."

JC

I can agree with you there.