Gas thread

[dReWpY]

no its not a thread dedicated to gman, its a place to talk petrol

i used to swear by speedway, but got better milage with marathon so im considering making a switch

citgo is evil so is petrol express both owned by fuckface chavez
contine with the gassy words of wisedom

[NONE_too_SOFT]

i've never even considered that some gas is better than others. I just fill up and go. dont worry about the little things.

[dubbs]

Never noticed a difference between Hess or Shell V-Power..

Seems all the same to me..

I just wouldn't go to those shitty old pumps..

[OneSickPsycho]

No need to wait for GM to chime in... It's all the same, anywhere you get it.

[Cutty72]

and too expensive.

[t-homo]

I always go to break time at home because the 89 octane is the same price as the 87. At school I go to Mobil because its the closest. Either way I always run fuel additive that gets me about 10 percent better mileage.

[Phenix_Rider]

I've been running Pilot because there's is the most consistently cheap. For example, 87 is $3.29 at Sheetz near home and the town I work in, and $3.09 at the Pilot and BP stations that are midway between work and home. Pilot gives about the same mileage- might be slightly less, but for the price difference, it's worth it.

[vabarber2]

7-11 And Sheets surve straight chit! I used to go to citgo for the 93 with the suped up hatch back, but Southern States has the cheapest usualy so I stop by there if I'm on that side of town otherwise I go anywhere.

[pickle.of.doom]

No need to wait for GM to chime in... It's all the same, anywhere you get it.

Not true, and Gas Man is going to give you a verbal bitch-slap for saying so :D

[Phenix_Rider]

Not true, and Gas Man is going to give you a verbal bitch-slap for saying so :D

I think he said chains and affiliates all have the same stuff and use the same infrastructure. So maybe Pilot and 7-11 and Citgo all have the same stuff, and Sheetz and Shell and BP have their own stuff. Not every name has different stuff.

[Gas Man]

no its not a thread dedicated to gman, its a place to talk petrol

i used to swear by speedway, but got better milage with marathon so im considering making a switch

citgo is evil so is petrol express both owned by fuckface chavez
contine with the gassy words of wisedom

marathon does give you better gas milage cause the speedway is the generic version of marathon gas. I will get into this in a min...

No need to wait for GM to chime in... It's all the same, anywhere you get it.

Again... that is not true... listen to Pickle... he's heard my rap on this stuff.

Not true, and Gas Man is going to give you a verbal bitch-slap for saying so :D

Oh...its coming!

I think he said chains and affiliates all have the same stuff and use the same infrastructure. So maybe Pilot and 7-11 and Citgo all have the same stuff, and Sheetz and Shell and BP have their own stuff. Not every name has different stuff.

You are close... but sheetz is generic.

Somebody said something about shell v-power... that was a new change about 3 or 4 years ago. All they did was go to 3 parts of the additive as I will describe below...

OH boy... get ready boys... this is my thing...

Here's the problem with these theorys...

*********************
Generic vs Branded gas.

Like the old saying "don't buy gas from a gas station that doesn't hold the name of the refinery". The gas it self is the same UNTIL it is put into the semi truck to be hauled to the gas station. What happens is that the actual gas gets a additive injected into while it fills the semi. This is where the differences start.

Generic is gas such as Speedway, KMart, Wal Mart, Sams, Admiral, Clark, Rich, Meijer, and many others that aren't list in the next list. The generic gas
comes from Mobil, and Marathon gas tank terminals but again changes with the additives.

BRANDED is Mobil, Marathon, BP (use to be Amoco), Sunoco, Shell. Side note, there use to be BP & Amoco. BP (British Petrl) bought Amoco (American Oil
Company).

The govt says that all these oil companies have to add "additives". The additives have different chemicals but mostly the same. The additives contain fuel milage enhancers, cleaners, evironmental crap and other good shit that your motor likes. The cleaners are good for your motor, duh! However, if the govt says you must inject "1" (I don't mean 1 additive I
mean just 1 as a unit)that's all the generic gas' gets. However, the Branded gas inject 3 times that amount. This is to ensure that their gas performs better than the generic gas. HERE'S WHERE THE GAS STARTS GETTING MORE DIFFERENT.

Branded GAS + 3 additive (sometimes ehtynol and becoming more normal) = Good GAS

Then you have GAS + 1 additive(generic) + ethynol = generic gas. Which brings us to ethynol.

This is something that the govt is pushing onto the oil companies. It is acholhol. The oil company such as Marathon gets a BIG tax break for using it in their generic gas. They get a tax break at the tank terminal, and the gas station. Here's the incentive for using it. It helps the gas burn MORE therefor cleaner. Cleaner means better for the tree huggers. Now they don't inj. ethynol into the branded gas.

Now cleaner burn also means cleaner gas tank. Just think about it, you can clean stuff with acholhol. When the semi's are hauling all branded gas they get a type of "non-luster" to the inside of their trailers. Then they haul some ethynol inj. gas and from driving down the road (splish splash) gets the inside of the trailer all clean. Now we have all heard of these guys saying, I put that ethynol injected crap gas into my "car/truck/bike" and it fucked it up. The problem is that the ethynol has cleaned out the gas tank and all that crud and crap has crapped up their gas filter and maybe injectors. You also may hear about it drying out o-rings and such. I try to use it everyonce and a while to keep everything clean and shinny but not all time.

Bottom line....

Generic gas gives you less good stuff plus ethynol.

Branded gas gives you 3 times good stuff and no ethynol (harder to find with no ethynol)

****************************

Now to understand what happens with octane now.

NOW that the ehtynol has become almost completely involved... So now there isn't even really standard 87, or 93. There was never 89. 89 is blended at the pump (where you fill up) with 87 & 93 to make the 87.

But with the ethynol being in almost every gallon now a days. The ethynol is 103 octane... so that will raise the octane of the product. So now your gas is blended at the tank farm as it goes into the semi trailer tanker.

For example... our 93 octane
Ethynol 10% of 103 octane = 11.3
93 octane product is 74% of the liquid = 68.82
85 octane product is 16% of the liquid = 13.6
============================== 93.72 octane or what you get at the pump


*******************************


Now on the buy american oil theory that is most recent email going around...

It went somin like this... and is COMPLETE BS

Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up the tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my family, and my friends.


The Saudis are boycotting American goods. We should return the favor.

An interesting thought is to boycott their GAS. Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia . Just buy from gas companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis.

I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies are the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle Eastern oil.

These companies import Middle Eastern oil:

Shell.......................... 205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco.........144,332,000 barrels
Exxon /Mobil..............130,082,000 barrels
Marathon/Speedway..117,740,000 barrels
Amoco........................62,231,000 barrels

Citgo Gas comes from South America, from a Dictator who hates Americans.

Do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION! (Oil is now $90-$100 a barrel)

Here are some large companies that
DO NOT import Middle Eastern oil:

Sunoco................ 0 barrels
Conoco................ 0 barrels
Sinclair................ 0 barrels
BP/Phillips.......... 0 barrels
Hess.................... 0 barrels
ARC0. .................. 0 barrels
Also: Pilot, Flying J, Love's, RaceTrac, Valero

All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and each is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are importing.

But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of gas buyers. It's really simple to do just forward this email


breathe....

Do you really know where the gas at the pump is coming from? You go to your local place for gas. Where is it? Let's say a Sam's Club. Where do they get their gas? When is the last time you saw a Sam's Club tank farm, refinery, and/or tanker truck? You don't. Its generic gas that they get at the lowest cost for the day. That may be a Marathon loading rack today and a BP the next.

Now..again... so Marathon gets some imported oil, refines it and stores it in their above ground tank farms. Then they sell 10,000 bbls of the gas to Valero (who in my area was bought out by Husky Oil in Lima, OH) and its shipped thru a pipeline to Joe's Oil & Fuel storage. Joe has an agreement with many oil companies. But for this 10,000 bbls its got Valero's name on it. So Bob's trucking comes in with an order for the Valero station on Main St. Picks up a load and drops it off at the gas station on Main St. You buy it from there thinking you're supporting non-imported oil when it actually was refined at Marathon.

This happens everyday. I run about 2 million bbls a month thru my facility of about every petroleom product out.

The thing is that its all fungible product. Meaning they swap back and forth and sell to whomever. BPO makes product for themselves and others like Sunoco. Marathon makes it for themselves, Valero, Husky, RKA, Sunoco. Sunoco makes it for about the same. They all make jet fuel for North West Airlines. Mobil does alot of the same.

Many of these companies that use to own everything. From the drilling rigs, refineries, pipelines, tank farms, tanker trucks, and the gas stations have sold off. Many of them just own the refineries now. They don't want the liabilities of it all anymore. So they sold the gas station to Abeeb. The trucks to Joe. The tank storage farms and under ground pipelines to other companies like mine. And the drilling rigs to Bruce Willis so he can drill in space.

The same holes are poked thru the email theory about not buying oil from one company. These emails are produced by people that don't truely know what is going on. I could go on and on and on about the inner workings of this stuff that I know. I have been born and raised in this world. My dad more or less did the same job I did. I even do what his job was and more (typicall of today's job cutting). Not too mention I have did every dirty job leading to this position.

********************

Now this is not every bit of info on the subject but a desent low down. If you have any questions just let me know. I think that makes sense. There are more in's and out's to all of this but it's getting kind of long.


This is why I'm "Gas Man"

[OneSickPsycho]

:bn:

[ceo012384]

no its not a thread dedicated to gman, its a place to talk petrol

i used to swear by speedway, but got better milage with marathon so im considering making a switch

citgo is evil so is petrol express both owned by fuckface chavez
contine with the gassy words of wisedom
We don't have any of those near here :lol:

[Mr Lefty]

Damn GMan that was actually very interesting for me... :dthumb:

[dReWpY]

and this is why i thought it was a worth while thread, thanks gman

[Lamnidae]

Okay GMAN so what the fuck I got outta that was roll name branded say 90% of the time and Generic 10% to clean the extra crap outta my tank????

So after every 9 or 10 fillups, do one generic for that alcohol/ethynol crap?

[Gas Man]

No... they almost all have ethynol now. Rarely will you find it otherwise. Further, they no longer HAVE to have the ethynol stickers on the pumps. So you won't know.

The branded gas is the one with more cleaners and enhancers.

[DLIT]

That's one thing that's gonna hit me when I get home. Gas prices. Fucking rediculous.

No... they almost all have ethynol now. Rarely will you find it otherwise. Further, they no longer HAVE to have the ethynol stickers on the pumps. So you won't know.

The branded gas is the one with more cleaners and enhancers.

So the cleaners work like the ethynol, basically. Ethynol isn't added just because of its cleaning properties, was it?

[Phenix_Rider]

That's one thing that's gonna hit me when I get home. Gas prices. Fucking rediculous.



So the cleaners work like the ethynol, basically. Ethynol isn't added just because of its cleaning properties, was it?

I'm pretty sure ethanol is just cheaper than real gasoline.

(No I haven't read the whole thing yet- no time)

[Gas Man]

Yes ethynol is cheaper... and in the winter they inject butane in the gas as well!!!!

Anymore Dlit... ethynol is always added to everything... I'm just saying that its a cleaner, it really is just de-natured achohol.

Here's another sniplet from another gas thread on WOS

The only difference between any "branded" gas is like saying Pizza Hut's Deep Dish is better than Jet's Deep Dish Pizza. They both cost similar, both fill you up and clog your arteries. What is the difference? Slight taste but virtually the same.

Generic vs branded is that the branded gases use more additives (cleaners, milage enhancers, epa crapola, ect).

Do you remember when shell rolled out its "V-Power" and the commercials showed 2 of the same cars driving. One on "the other brand" and one on "V-Power". The "V-"power" car went farther on the same amount and got better gas milage. I was working in Flint at the time and in genessee county they got their Shell gas from the Mobil tank farm (using their own "Shell additive") on Dort Hwy. When they did the switch the Mobil operator just changed the amount of additive from "1 part" to "3 parts" per X number of gals. Increasing the additive, therefor the milage enhancers and detergants, giving you better gas milage.

This idea is the same when it comes to generic vs branded. The root product of the gas is the same. Its the additive that changes in quanity (generic vs branded) and "flavor" (branded vs branded vs generic vs generic).

That is why I bring up the point of gas station quality. Not only does it bring to light the quality and cleanlinest of the underground tank but also the calibration of their pumps. Sure the pumps are calibrated and checked by the state.. but you know...

And lets not even talk about octane... that is simple... if your motor isn't setup for it, ie; high compression, advanced timing, ect... then you're wasting your money. Send it to me for your gasoline education.

[z06boy]

Damn GMan that was actually very interesting for me... :dthumb:

I agree...I haven't been keeping up with this thread and I knew you went by Gas Man but dayum...now I'm actually impressed. :phat: :lol: :beers:

[Gas Man]

Yeah its not Gas Man cause I fart!

[z06boy]

Yeah its not Gas Man cause I fart!

:rofl: I didn't know if was for like stepping on the gas or something.

[dubbs]

Yes ethynol is cheaper... and in the winter they inject butane in the gas as well!!!!

Anymore Dlit... ethynol is always added to everything... I'm just saying that its a cleaner, it really is just de-natured achohol.

Here's another sniplet from another gas thread on WOS

Does the butane in the gas have any effect on MPG?

I've noticed in my 40mpg beater that we average a bit less now, doing the same driving, then in the summer..

[Gas Man]

Does the butane in the gas have any effect on MPG?

I've noticed in my 40mpg beater that we average a bit less now, doing the same driving, then in the summer..
I'm not sure... I don't think so...

[Cutty72]

Does the butane in the gas have any effect on MPG?

I've noticed in my 40mpg beater that we average a bit less now, doing the same driving, then in the summer..

Probably cause it's cold out.

1. you may let it idle more, to warm up.
2. cold air is more dense, thus, more air is run into your engine. more air means more fuel.

[dubbs]

Probably cause it's cold out.

1. you may let it idle more, to warm up.
2. cold air is more dense, thus, more air is run into your engine. more air means more fuel.

We don't let it idle more..

But yeah, I agree with the second one.. Makes sense..

[ceo012384]

Yes ethynol is cheaper... and in the winter they inject butane in the gas as well!!!!

Anymore Dlit... ethynol is always added to everything... I'm just saying that its a cleaner, it really is just de-natured achohol.
So isn't the main problem that Ethynol provides less energy when it combusts, and also burns at a different speed than typical gasoline?

Thus that is why bikes (which require more precise air/fuel mixing and higher octane due to high rpms) don't work well with anything more than 10% ethynol?

Wouldn't running a higher-percentage ethynol blend be similar to running too low of an octane, i.e. you would get detonation and pinging?Does the butane in the gas have any effect on MPG?

I've noticed in my 40mpg beater that we average a bit less now, doing the same driving, then in the summer..
Probably cause it's cold out.

1. you may let it idle more, to warm up.
2. cold air is more dense, thus, more air is run into your engine. more air means more fuel.

The warm up and idling stuff is a good point.

Also, you're generally travelling slower and thus getting worse mileage.

But the cold air part... I don't think so... the same amount of fuel is injected each time the injector squirts... but since the air is denser, the compression ratio actually goes up and the engine is MORE efficient and makes MORE power with the same amount of gas.

Also, the cooling system (radiator fans and such) need to do less work to keep the engine at optimum temperature... which would increase the mpg theoretically...

[pickle.of.doom]

I'd say that your car is just starting to run shittier than it used to, and you will still see the less MPG even when summer hits.

[Gas Man]

So isn't the main problem that Ethynol provides less energy when it combusts, and also burns at a different speed than typical gasoline?

Thus that is why bikes (which require more precise air/fuel mixing and higher octane due to high rpms) don't work well with anything more than 10% ethynol?

Wouldn't running a higher-percentage ethynol blend be similar to running too low of an octane, i.e. you would get detonation and pinging?

No the ehtynol isn't effecting you. You won't find it higher than 10% in today's market. Its not truely effecting anything. Its definately not a octane thing... the ethynol itself is 103 octane so that's not it. The more you got in the higher your octane would be. Its after the ethynol is added that they add in 86 or 87 octane gas to knock the octane level back down to 93. Otherwise it would be a great deal higher when they added the ehtynol to the 93 octane gas.

[dubbs]

I'd say that your car is just starting to run shittier than it used to, and you will still see the less MPG even when summer hits.

Possibly, The muffler is basically rotted out now, car is waaay too loud now, could have somethin to do with it too..

We put 18k miles on it since September.. Cars got 140k now..

[marko138]

I put Shell in my Jeep. My wife prefers Hess. I get real shitty milage from Sunoco gas...so I don't buy it.