Hybrid and electric cars - Environmental impact?

[Homeslice]

Does anyone have any data on the overall "impact" of manufacturing a hybrid or electric car? Gotta figure that those huge batteries aren't very environmentally friendly to produce....... or dispose of for that matter.

[goof2]

Does anyone have any data on the overall "impact" of manufacturing a hybrid or electric car? Gotta figure that those huge batteries aren't very environmentally friendly to produce....... or dispose of for that matter.

I know there have been articles written, but they appear to almost always be designed to reach a desired result from the beginning based on the intended audience. The disposal problem isn't that bad with the batteries hybrids use. They aren't lead acid like what is in a standard car. The biggest additional impact from hybrids is due to the batteries, which require nickel that has to be mined and shipped around the world.

Plug in electrics add another degree of difficulty on top of that. The power still has to come from somewhere. Which is better, filling up with a tank of gas when needed or having to plug in every night? Is that power coming from a plant powered with petroleum, nuclear, hydro, wind, solar? What are the potential unintended consequences from that power source (especially wind and solar)? How efficient is the transmission of the power from the plant to the car? What happens when a natural disaster (hurricane, tornado, ice storm, earthquake) knocks out power for a week or more? A lot of these questions cannot be answered generally. They almost have to be taken on a case by case basis, which isn't very realistic.

I don't think we will really know the true impact from these types of cars until there are millions on the road. At that point it really will not matter because a) it will be too late and b) hybrids and plug ins will probably be dying technology anyway.

[Rsv1000R]

b) hybrids and plug ins will probably be dying technology anyway.

What do you think will replace them?

[BobTheBiker]

What do you think will replace them?

either the smoke belching machines they were intended to replace, OR something nuke powered.

[CrazyKell]

Why do you want this informatioN?

[goof2]

What do you think will replace them?

I'm pretty sure it will be hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. I always hear that the cost of the infrastructure requirements would be too great. I never see numbers assigned for that cost. I also never see any numbers for the costs associated with updating the electric grid to handle increased power requirements from large quantities of plug in vehicles. What I do know is fuel cell vehicles have virtually no "carbon footprint" and hydrogen is a completely renewable energy. Those two facts alone make me think that is the direction the government will eventually push, whether it is a good idea or not.

[goof2]

Why do you want this informatioN?

Personally I would like to have this information so I could make an informed judgment of hybrid cars, rather than the emotional one being forced upon us.

[Homeslice]

Personally I would like to have this information so I could make an informed judgment of hybrid cars, rather than the emotional one being forced upon us.

plusone

For all we know, the batteries are made in some place like China by 12 year olds inhaling toxic metals, and the leftover solvent is dumped in a pond somewhere.

[Trip]

I know one thing, if you want to make some money, come up with a better battery technology. A lot of money to be made there if you can do it.

[Rsv1000R]

I also never see any numbers for the costs associated with updating the electric grid to handle increased power requirements from large quantities of plug in vehicles. What I do know is fuel cell vehicles have virtually no "carbon footprint" and hydrogen is a completely renewable energy. Those two facts alone make me think that is the direction the government will eventually push, whether it is a good idea or not.

While hydrogen is renewable, you know where they get it from?

Almost all of the commercially available H comes from Natural Gas steam shift reactors. Definately has a carbon footprint, The rest comes from splitting water, which mostly get's it's electricity from the grid.

There is no free hydrogen.

[Rsv1000R]

I know one thing, if you want to make some money, come up with a better battery technology. A lot of money to be made there if you can do it.

Plus bill gates kind of money!

[goof2]

While hydrogen is renewable, you know where they get it from?

Almost all of the commercially available H comes from Natural Gas steam shift reactors. Definately has a carbon footprint, The rest comes from splitting water, which mostly get's it's electricity from the grid.

There is no free hydrogen.

I guess it goes back to a question similar to the original, what is the environmental impact from generating hydrogen? That isn't the biggest question for me though. It will take some time for me to be convinced it is safe for the same dumbasses that can't drive normal cars to be wheeling around with thousands of PSI of Hindenburg gas attached to their vehicle.

[Smittie61984]

It will take some time for me to be convinced it is safe for the same dumbasses that can't drive normal cars to be wheeling around with thousands of PSI of Hindenburg gas attached to their vehicle.

Pinto 2 FTW!!!

[goof2]

Pinto 2 FTW!!!

More like nuclear Pinto. I can only imagine having to evacuate a highway every time a car catches on fire. Are firefighters going to go anywhere near one?

[bmblebee]

What is the Enviro impact when two battery powered cars crash into each other and split those cases open?

[goof2]

What is the Enviro impact when two battery powered cars crash into each other and split those cases open?

I don't believe any manufacturer is using lead-acid batteries in hybrids, so it could be worse. Nickel-metal-hydride batteries are currently in vogue and while nickel isn't supposed to be very good for you it is a lot better than acid and lead coming out of everything. Lithium ion is probably going to be the next step and is supposed to be better than nickel on the environmental front. Lithium polymer, probably the best technology from an environmental and efficiency standpoint, has its own problems. If they suffer an impact leading to a short or are charged too quickly they ignite and burn vigorously.