2nd Ammendment Rights

[TATER]

who here is pro-2nd ammendment. Who thinks that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

I am excluding the ex fife option from the poll for more accurate results.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

if we all had guns we'd all get along.

[TATER]

here is some food for thought for all you anti gun folks...

Doctors vs Gunowners



Doctors

(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is

700,000.


(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians

per year are

120,000.



(C) Accidental deaths per physician is


0.171.



Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of



Health Human Services.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



Now think about this:



Guns

(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is

80,000,000.

(Yes, that's 80 million)


(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is

1,500.

(C) The number of accidental deaths

per gun owner is

.000188.

Statistics courtesy of FBI

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So, statistically, doctors are approximately

9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



Remember, 'Guns don't kill people, doctors do.'



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>







FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT
ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



Please alert your friends



to this



alarming threat.



We must ban doctors



before this gets completely out of hand!!!!!



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



Out of concern for the public at large,



I withheld the statistics on



lawyers



for fear the shock would cause



people to panic and seek medical attention!

[NONE_too_SOFT]

ummm, i dont think we're worried about the

"accidental"


deaths guns cause, my man...


its more like the school shootings, mall shootings, highway shootings, bank shootings, play ground shootings, mc donalds shootings, nature reserver shootings, underwater shootings, moon base shootings, disney land shootings, statue of liberty shootings...
(i may have been a bit liberal on a few of those)

[itgirl]

and i have never cowered in fear when a doctor pointed at me...

[NONE_too_SOFT]

lol

[itgirl]

i guess i am anti-gun, 'cause if i had one i just might use it. so y'all are safer this way.

[Mr Lefty]

but there's a diffrence between not wanting one and thinking no one should have one

taking guns from the law abiding citizens (the only ones who will hand over the weapons) will do nothing but make them easier targets, but won't take the weapons from criminals... shit they can't stop people from do'n coke or smoke'n weed... what makes you think they can get ALL the guns?

[Phenix_Rider]

Gotta say pro-. Hell, I'm from Arizona and Redneck Central and Military dependent to boot! Around here, everyone has at least a rifle and a shotgun. Lots of people can (and do) shoot of their back porch. If you start kids young, they learn respect and if they hunt, they know damn well the damage that occurs. That being said, there are many, many people that should never be allowed to touch any kind of weapon.

[Gas Man]

I will be at the range putting holes in some paper tomry.

I have my CCW class on the 5th.

Also picking up a concealment vest to wear when riding.

I think the only gun control that should exist is hitting your target.

[pickle.of.doom]

I'm pro gun, but I also think guns are for pussies. I think everyone should carry a samurai sword with them at all times.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

I'm pro gun, but I also think guns are for pussies. I think everyone should carry a samurai sword with them at all times.

dont bring a knife to a gun fight. unless its a frickin huge knife.

[Cutty72]

Definatly pro gun
If I am able to defend my country, I also want to be able to defend my own personal property as well as my friends and family.

Getting "rid" of guns won't make anything safer. It will make for more illegal weapons, and a LOT more easy targets for the bad guys that still have their guns.

[itgirl]

but there's a diffrence between not wanting one and thinking no one should have one

taking guns from the law abiding citizens (the only ones who will hand over the weapons) will do nothing but make them easier targets, but won't take the weapons from criminals... shit they can't stop people from do'n coke or smoke'n weed... what makes you think they can get ALL the guns?

i just don't like guns. never have, never will. you won't change my opinion there (so save your breath). it's a girl thing, i guess. it's my job to protect my kids from harm. but if you wanna own a gun, go for it. all i can ask is that you please don't shoot me. :) fair enough, right. :lol:

[OneSickPsycho]

I'm pro gun, but I also think guns are for pussies. I think everyone should carry a samurai sword with them at all times.

A few years ago in Columbus a transvestite murdered another tranny with a samurai sword... Seriously.
http://www.tgcrossroads.org/news/archive.asp?aid=195

As far as guns are concerned...

Here's the truth...

Statistics demonstrate that in EVERY state that has enacted concealed carry friendly legislation, crime has gone DOWN.

Liberal media bias prevails and stories in which people defend themselves and/or otherwise stop a crime with guns will NEVER be front page news. Gun crime on the other hand will always be.

Laws do not work against the lawless. The only thing banning guns does is takes guns out of the hands of responsible owners aka, law-abiding citizens.

Logic should prevail, but unfortunately nobody wants to THINK about the problem... People are afraid of guns... and rightfully so... They are a powerful tool. Unfortunately emotion generally prevails in the debate.

Emotion: More guns = more crime.
Logic: Depends who has the guns.

Emotion: Tough gun laws would lower gun crime.
Logic: Criminals, by definition, do not subscribe to laws.

Emotion: Guns kill people and are the source of crime.
Logic: Guns are a tool. It's the person using the tool that's the problem, not the tool itself.

Emotion: Tens of thousands of people are hurt or killed by guns every year.
Logic: More than twice as many die in auto accidents each year. Banning cars would save many more lives.

[Phenix_Rider]

i just don't like guns. never have, never will. you won't change my opinion there (so save your breath). it's a girl thing, i guess. it's my job to protect my kids from harm. but if you wanna own a gun, go for it. all i can ask is that you please don't shoot me. :) fair enough, right. :lol:

Ugh- my ex was the same way. She was the same about motorcycles too I guess. No convincing her that the rider/owner is the key.

[Amber Lamps]

I will be at the range putting holes in some paper tomry.

I have my CCW class on the 5th.

Also picking up a concealment vest to wear when riding.

I think the only gun control that should exist is hitting your target.

That reminds me,NC right to carry state! I got my buy permit and once I pick out a gun and purchase,I can carry it everywhere (basically).:pat:

Which also reminds me of something I've noticed...I have yet to see a bar fight since I've been here. I guess someone looking at your girlfriend or bumping into you on accident is a little less important when the other guy might have 357 in his car. Note: bars are one of the places you can't carry,also schools,malls,etc.

[Mrs. Colleen]

ummm, i dont think we're worried about the

"accidental"


deaths guns cause, my man...


its more like the school shootings, mall shootings, highway shootings, bank shootings, play ground shootings, mc donalds shootings, nature reserver shootings, underwater shootings, moon base shootings, disney land shootings, statue of liberty shootings...
(i may have been a bit liberal on a few of those)

:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
I am more worried about guns being readily available to people that have no business having one...like people who shoot up random places. :no:

I am not 100% anti-gun, I just think the amount that are available to people is a bit excessive. :idk:

I am more anti-dumbpeoplethathavenobusinesshavingadriverslicense. :td: :td:

[OneSickPsycho]

:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
I am more worried about guns being readily available to people that have no business having one...like people who shoot up random places. :no:

I am not 100% anti-gun, I just think the amount that are available to people is a bit excessive. :idk:

I am more anti-dumbpeoplethathavenobusinesshavingadriverslicense. :td: :td:

Background checks should include references... Crazy people who shoot up public places never have friends, so they couldn't get any references.

Oh... and you'll notice that the places that have the most shootings occur within areas that do not allow CCW's... I heard one of these nuts quoted as saying he chose the mall because he knew guns were not allowed. Again, logic vs. emotion.

[Crazy]

i voted anti gun, but i think its a bit more complicated than just pro or anti.

I don't agree with the argument that if everybody had a gun, shootings would decrease (in number or severity). I do agree with the argument that if we ban guns, the only ppl that would have them are the criminals, which would end up creating a more dangerous environment. All I'm saying is that banning guns altogether is a terrible idea in the short term but make more sense in the long run, coupled with a campaign against the black market for firearms. And to the argument that say that only "responsible" people should have guns... who decides this? what about those that slip through the cracks? what about those normally reasonable and responsible people that are driven to murder after walking in on their spouse cheating on them?

but hey, thats just me. I've never had a gun pointed at me in my life.

also, you spelled amendment wrong. :lol:

[Cutty72]

ok... here's a question for all those that are anti gun

Does this encompass ALL firearms, or just handguns??

If one were to outlaw every firearm, that would cause far more problems than it would help.

Either way, I say give me my gun, and I'll shoot the motherfucker that trys to take it away from me!
:sniper:

[OneSickPsycho]

i voted anti gun, but i think its a bit more complicated than just pro or anti.

I don't agree with the argument that if everybody had a gun, shootings would decrease (in number or severity). I do agree with the argument that if we ban guns, the only ppl that would have them are the criminals, which would end up creating a more dangerous environment. All I'm saying is that banning guns altogether is a terrible idea in the short term but make more sense in the long run, coupled with a campaign against the black market for firearms. And to the argument that say that only "responsible" people should have guns... who decides this? what about those that slip through the cracks? what about those normally reasonable and responsible people that are driven to murder after walking in on their spouse cheating on them?

but hey, thats just me. I've never had a gun pointed at me in my life.

also, you spelled amendment wrong. :lol:

Sounds great, but it would never work. Kinda like the War on Drugs. Prohibition of ANY kind in the United States simply does not work. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[Crazy]

sure it might never work, but its a step in the right direction... whereas giving a gun to every tom, dick and jane that passes a test might help in the short term but is a step in the wrong direction.

another argument that I don't get is that people need guns to defend their country. If some foreign power manages to destroy the most powerful military in the world, do you really think its going to make a huge difference whether you've got your shotgun under the bed? isnt the point of having a full time military so that we don't need the "militia"?

[OTB]

DO your research.

Find out what happened to the crime stats in the UK when they confiscated all the guns.

Find out what happened to the crime stats in Australia when they confiscated the guns.

Look at DC.

Look at all the crime stats of the states that enacted liberal CCW laws as compared to those that did not.

Read the Lott report.

You don't want to own a gun; fine and dandy......just don't tell me the 2nd Amendment doesn't say what it says (looks like the Supremes will settle that one once and for all).

As an aside, my wife felt the same way as itgirl did when we were first married; I sold my guns to make her feel better......then we were robbed (no, not burglerized, ROBBED) one long night.

My wife became very proficient with her 4" S&W .357 and Mossburg pump gun, and providentially so, because she used the S&W to scare away another robber in the dark of night a year later......


Like I said....you do what want....just don't get in the way of me being able to defend MY family..........

[Cutty72]

DO your research.

Find out what happened to the crime stats in the UK when they confiscated all the guns.

Find out what happened to the crime stats in Australia when they confiscated the guns.

Look at DC.

Look at all the crime stats of the states that enacted liberal CCW laws as compared to those that did not.

Read the Lott report.

You don't want to own a gun; fine and dandy......just don't tell me the 2nd Amendment doesn't say what it says (looks like the Supremes will settle that one once and for all).

As an aside, my wife felt the same way as itgirl did when we were first married; I sold my guns to make her feel better......then we were robbed (no, not burglerized, ROBBED) one long night.

My wife became very proficient with her 4" S&W .357 and Mossburg pump gun, and providentially so, because she used the S&W to scare away another robber in the dark of night a year later......


Like I said....you do what want....just don't get in the way of me being able to defend MY family..........

THANK YOU!

this man is a genius

[OTB]

sure it might never work, but its a step in the right direction... whereas giving a gun to every tom, dick and jane that passes a test might help in the short term but is a step in the wrong direction.

another argument that I don't get is that people need guns to defend their country. If some foreign power manages to destroy the most powerful military in the world, do you really think its going to make a huge difference whether you've got your shotgun under the bed? isnt the point of having a full time military so that we don't need the "militia"?


The problem is....you don't understand the Constitution and The Bill of Rights (I'm not being snide; your comments reveal your lack of knowledge in that area). Read the commentary on the process of creation of and ratification of the Constition and the Bill of Rights in the Federalist Papers; then you will understand the greater roll of citizens and the militia.

If you don't believe we need a militia, then you have already forgotten the lessons of hurricane Katrina........

['73 H1 Triple]

i just don't like guns. never have, never will. you won't change my opinion there (so save your breath). it's a girl thing, i guess. it's my job to protect my kids from harm. but if you wanna own a gun, go for it. all i can ask is that you please don't shoot me. :) fair enough, right. :lol:

No, it's not a "girl thing". My wife has a carry permit and carries ( and is very proficient with ) a .38 special revolver.

It's my belief that the 2nd amendment is what keeps our country together. The people having firearms keeps the politicians in line.

The citizens at the time of the revolution had "state of the art" weaponry and I think we should have the same opportunity.

[Mrs. Colleen]

ok... here's a question for all those that are anti gun

Does this encompass ALL firearms, or just handguns??

If one were to outlaw every firearm, that would cause far more problems than it would help.

Either way, I say give me my gun, and I'll shoot the motherfucker that trys to take it away from me!
:sniper:

That is why it is not so cut and dry - anti or pro.

I am not really 100% anti but I am definitely not pro. :idk:

[Crazy]

well i can tell from this poll, and from everything i've seen on this forum and :twf: that the general consensus is pro gun, so I'm fighting a losing battle here. All I can say is the system right now is definitely not working

['73 H1 Triple]

well i can tell from this poll, and from everything i've seen on this forum and :twf: that the general consensus is pro gun, so I'm fighting a losing battle here. All I can say is the system right now is definitely not working

I'm pro gun and can agree that there is a problem with gun violence.

I firmly believe that a major part of the problem is liberal judges and prosecutors allowing criminals to plea down the charges against them.

What good is the federal minimum jail term of 5 years for using a firearm in the commision of a crime if the "soft" judges and prosecutors don't use it?

[t-homo]

I am pro guns, always have been. I grew up hunting so I have shot a lot of damn animals. I feel that anyone who does concealed carry should have a minimum number of hours training before allowed to do so. As soon as I turn 21, I will be applying for my concealed carry license, and plan on carrying at all times.

Here is a turn. What do you think about carrying inside of places where guns are prohibited? If there is a shooting, and someone fires back and ends it, should the second person be charged?

[Phenix_Rider]

I am pro guns, always have been. I grew up hunting so I have shot a lot of damn animals. I feel that anyone who does concealed carry should have a minimum number of hours training before allowed to do so. As soon as I turn 21, I will be applying for my concealed carry license, and plan on carrying at all times.

Here is a turn. What do you think about carrying inside of places where guns are prohibited? If there is a shooting, and someone fires back and ends it, should the second person be charged?

Charged, yes- they broke the law. But there should be room for the judge to be lenient. They did stop a crime.

[OneSickPsycho]

DO your research.

Find out what happened to the crime stats in the UK when they confiscated all the guns.

Find out what happened to the crime stats in Australia when they confiscated the guns.

Look at DC.

Look at all the crime stats of the states that enacted liberal CCW laws as compared to those that did not.

Read the Lott report.

You don't want to own a gun; fine and dandy......just don't tell me the 2nd Amendment doesn't say what it says (looks like the Supremes will settle that one once and for all).

As an aside, my wife felt the same way as itgirl did when we were first married; I sold my guns to make her feel better......then we were robbed (no, not burglerized, ROBBED) one long night.

My wife became very proficient with her 4" S&W .357 and Mossburg pump gun, and providentially so, because she used the S&W to scare away another robber in the dark of night a year later......


Like I said....you do what want....just don't get in the way of me being able to defend MY family..........

The problem is....you don't understand the Constitution and The Bill of Rights (I'm not being snide; your comments reveal your lack of knowledge in that area). Read the commentary on the process of creation of and ratification of the Constition and the Bill of Rights in the Federalist Papers; then you will understand the greater roll of citizens and the militia.

If you don't believe we need a militia, then you have already forgotten the lessons of hurricane Katrina........

Excellent posts... Again, it's a logic vs. emotion debate...

I am pro guns, always have been. I grew up hunting so I have shot a lot of damn animals. I feel that anyone who does concealed carry should have a minimum number of hours training before allowed to do so. As soon as I turn 21, I will be applying for my concealed carry license, and plan on carrying at all times.

Here is a turn. What do you think about carrying inside of places where guns are prohibited? If there is a shooting, and someone fires back and ends it, should the second person be charged?

First off, yes... there should be substantial training for CCW permits and follow-up training required as well... same goes with auto licenses.

Doubled edged sword... You could save a room full of retarded kids and some asswipe judge would make an example out of you...

Charged, yes- they broke the law. But there should be room for the judge to be lenient. They did stop a crime.

That's the problem... the lenient judges would most likely throw the book at you... Had you been the guy running into the school and killing a dozen children however... you could make an argument that your mommy didn't hug you enough when you were 3 and get 1/2 of the suggested sentence.

[t-homo]

Charged, yes- they broke the law. But there should be room for the judge to be lenient. They did stop a crime.

That's how I feel also. But, like you (or someone, doesn't really matter) said, most shootings happen in these places so I wouldn't feel bad about it at all.

[Rider]

Pro gun all the way. As a matter of fact, I just bought a huge gun safe over the weekend..

[Mr Lefty]

Pro gun all the way. As a matter of fact, I just bought a huge gun safe over the weekend..

:nopicsbs:

[kanwisch]

I'm libertarian, so I don't care if you own one. I have no need for one whatsoever so not in my future. The risk is too high to have one in the house with kids anyway relative to the benefits, IMO.

A different picture on this, however, is whether the 2nd Amendment guarantees your own right to a gun or whether its a collective right intended to prevent a federal organization (Congress, FBI, etc) from stripping states of their militias. That's before the Supreme Court now and based on the Justices questions, for the first time ever, they are (probably) going to reverse previous commentary to find in favor of a personal right. Not surprising given the strong right-leanings of the Court these days, but surprising that they're reversing previous rightist SC Chief Justices opinions. What's next? ;)

Since the poll's not clear which you're talking about, I didn't vote.

[z06boy]

I'm pro gun and can agree that there is a problem with gun violence.

I firmly believe that a major part of the problem is liberal judges and prosecutors allowing criminals to plea down the charges against them.

What good is the federal minimum jail term of 5 years for using a firearm in the commision of a crime if the "soft" judges and prosecutors don't use it?

I don't feel like typing out a long response so I'll just agree with this post...pretty much the same as I feel.

Yes I have guns and yes I conceal carry.

[fnfalman]

I will be at the range putting holes in some paper tomry.

I have my CCW class on the 5th.

Also picking up a concealment vest to wear when riding.

I think the only gun control that should exist is hitting your target.

Guns, guts and God are what make America great. Euro weenies and the rest of the world's weenies need not apply.:pat:

[Cutty72]

Guns, guts and God are what make America great. Euro weenies and the rest of the world's weenies need not apply.:pat:

:iagree: :rockwoot: :pat:

[Chuck41]

DO your research.

Find out what happened to the crime stats in the UK when they confiscated all the guns.

Find out what happened to the crime stats in Australia when they confiscated the guns.

Look at DC.

Look at all the crime stats of the states that enacted liberal CCW laws as compared to those that did not.

Read the Lott report.

You don't want to own a gun; fine and dandy......just don't tell me the 2nd Amendment doesn't say what it says (looks like the Supremes will settle that one once and for all).

As an aside, my wife felt the same way as itgirl did when we were first married; I sold my guns to make her feel better......then we were robbed (no, not burglerized, ROBBED) one long night.

My wife became very proficient with her 4" S&W .357 and Mossburg pump gun, and providentially so, because she used the S&W to scare away another robber in the dark of night a year later......


Like I said....you do what want....just don't get in the way of me being able to defend MY family..........

Good call OTB, do your research.
But check your sources.
The UK has had strict gun control for over 100 years. there have been amendments to the act following Schoolyard shootings (It's interesting to note that the British press invariably call them "US-style" schoolyard shootings). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom
If you scroll down a bit, you get to this bit.

Homicide and firearms crime

In 2005/06 there were 766 offenses initially recorded as homicide by the police in England and Wales (including the 52 victims of the 7 July 2005 London bombings),[18] a rate of 1.4 per 100,000 of population. Only 50 (6.6%) were committed with firearms, one being with an air weapon.[19] The homicide rate for London was 2.4 per 100,000 in the same year (1.7 when excluding the 7 July bombings).[20] However, the definition of homicide varies between countries. In the US the FBI asks for all homicides to be listed as murder, while the police force in the UK follows the cases and changes the data as need. This has resulted in the appearance of a lower homicide rate in the UK.[21]

By comparison, 5.5 murders per 100,000 of population were reported by police in the United States in 2000, of which 70% involved the use of firearms.[22] New York City, with a population size similar to London (over 8 million residents), reported 6.9 murders per 100,000 people in 2004.[23]

The rise in UK gun crime is a long term trend that is apparently unaffected by the state of UK firearms legislation. [24] Before the 1997 ban, handguns were only held by 0.1% of the population,[25] and while the number of crimes involving firearms in England and Wales increased from 13,874 in 1998/99 to 24,070 in 2002/03, they remained relatively static at 24,094 in 2003/04, and have since fallen to 21,521 in 2005/06. The latter includes 3,275 crimes involving imitation firearms and 10,437 involving air weapons, compared to 566 and 8,665 respectively in 1998/99.[26] Only those "firearms" positively identified as being imitations or air weapons (e.g. by being recovered by the police or by being fired) are classed as such, so the actual numbers are likely to be significantly higher. In 2005/06, 8,978 of the total of 21,521 firearms crimes (42%) were for criminal damage.[27]

Since 1998, the number of people injured by firearms in England and Wales increased by 110%,[28] from 2,378 in 1998/99 to 5,001 in 2005/06. "Injury" in this context means by the use of the gun as a blunt instrument or as a threat, or by being shot. In 2005/06, 87% of such injuries were defined as "slight," which includes the use of firearms as a threat only. The number of homicides committed with firearms has remained between a range of 46 and 97 for the past decade, standing at 50 in 2005/06 (a fall from 75 the previous year). Between 1998/99 and 2005/06, there have been only two fatal shootings of police officers in England and Wales. Over the same period there were 107 non-fatal shootings of police officers - an average of just 9.7 per year.[29]
And this one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia



Historically, Australia has had relatively low levels of violent crime. Overall levels of homicide and suicide have remained relatively static for several decades, while the proportion of these crimes that involved firearms has consistently declined since the early 1980s. Between 1991 and 2001, the number of firearm related deaths in Australia declined 47%.[18] The Sporting Shooters Association of Australia argues that there is no evidence that in gun control restrictions in 1987, 1996 and 2002 had any impact on this already established trend.[19][20] An interpretation of the statistics by the head of the New South Wales Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, Don Weatherburn,[21] noted that the level of legal gun ownership in New South Wales increased in recent years. In 2006, the lack of any measurable effect from the 1996 firearms legislation was confirmed using a statistical method (ARIMA), in a peer-reviewed article in the British Journal of Criminology by academics Dr Jeanine Baker (SSAA) and Dr Samara McPhedran (Women in Shooting and Hunting).[22] Prominent Australian criminologist Don Weatherburn described the Baker & McPhedran article as "reputable" and "well-conducted" and stated that the available data are insufficient to draw stronger conclusions.[23] Weatherburn noted the importance of policing illegal firearm possession and argued that it should not be necessarily concluded that relaxing restrictions would not affect the homicide rate.[24]

I've seen plenty of articles saying that Australias crime rate has gone through the roof since gun control was implemented after the Port Arthur Massacre (which by the way is still the highest death toll in a mass shooting incident. See, We do have to win everything!!). Most of these articles originate out of pro gun lobbys in the US.

The common factor in both of the above articles is that there was a small spike in gun related crime, followed by a steady decline.

Don't believe everything you read!