Odd Request.

[Smittie61984]

Well I'm getting faster and faster and getting my knee closer to the ground. Which soon I hope to get some Parking Lot practice and maybe a few trackdays if I could ever get my bike to the point it might pass track inspection.

Anyways I've seen pictures of people knee dragging and racing through corners. But was wondering if anyone had some pictures of proper knee dragging technique. I'm not specifically looking for knee dragging but stuff to help me handle better and give me better reference.

For example I under stand hanging off the bike along with stay on your feet and not your butt. I understand counter steering also. But have no clue how far forward I should be on the bike or far back.

If I got maybe an above view picture of someone going through a corner that would probably help. But would enjoy multiple pictures from various angles to paint a better picture for me.

Because my problem is I don't know any faster riders than me(Which is sad) and basically started last July(With 3 months of it rebuilding a bike) and until the last couple of months where I got some friends into bikes for the first time. Well I had to learn on my own.

And another question I never see addressed much is feet/toe position. Where on the pegs are your feet? And do you point in the direction you turn. That seems to bug me more than anything.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Mr Lefty]

I'm sure you'll get a few photos from Trip and the others... but why not look at MotoGP.com... you'll find millions of photos... and you know they know their shit

[Mrs. Colleen]

Well I'm getting faster and faster and getting my knee closer to the ground. Which soon I hope to get some Parking Lot practice and maybe a few trackdays if I could ever get my bike to the point it might pass track inspection.

Anyways I've seen pictures of people knee dragging and racing through corners. But was wondering if anyone had some pictures of proper knee dragging technique. I'm not specifically looking for knee dragging but stuff to help me handle better and give me better reference.

For example I under stand hanging off the bike along with stay on your feet and not your butt. I understand counter steering also. But have no clue how far forward I should be on the bike or far back.

If I got maybe an above view picture of someone going through a corner that would probably help. But would enjoy multiple pictures from various angles to paint a better picture for me.

Because my problem is I don't know any faster riders than me(Which is sad) and basically started last July(With 3 months of it rebuilding a bike) and until the last couple of months where I got some friends into bikes for the first time. Well I had to learn on my own.

And another question I never see addressed much is feet/toe position. Where on the pegs are your feet? And do you point in the direction you turn. That seems to bug me more than anything.

Any help would be appreciated.

I can help with part...I keep the front part of my foot (balls) on the pegs. After shifting I slide my foot back. As far as pointing your toes, no.

And for photos...check out the pros. :dthumb: :beers:

[Trip]

http://mcnicholas.smugmug.com/photos/46139713-O.jpg

[OneSickPsycho]

From the head down...

Look through the turn and kiss the mirror (get your head off the bike like you're trying to kiss the mirror)... Position your armpit on top of your gas cap... move your ass off onto the inside of the bike and clamp your leg on the outside. Turn your toes out and put the balls of your feet on the pegs... Load the outside peg...

As far as overall position goes, it depends for me... If I am in full tuck, I have my ass more towards the back... under normal circumstances, my ass only moves slightly towards the back from standard seating position... if at all.

[DLIT]

Yeah, check out the proffesionals and how they do it. Take note of their footing and how their arms are bent and all that. I'd explain more, but i gotta catch a flight and don't have tme to post pics.

Do you have a faster buddy? Maybe he could follow you and show you the ropes.

[Smittie61984]

Thanks guys. Those helped a ton. And the Armpit over the gas cap made all the difference. Which I tried it with my kickstand down and it felt right. Hopefully tommorow if I get off early enough I can hit some parking lots and maybe get some friends to take video and pictures of me so others can critique my riding technique.

Which is it necesarry to try and put your knee down? Because I've messed with the grabbing the gas tank with my right(If going left) and I always felt like my knee should be closer to the bike. Again I'm not too concerned with dragging. If I drag a knee I rather it be because I had no choice not becuase I stuck it out so I could get my knee on the ground.

Yeah, check out the proffesionals and how they do it. Take note of their footing and how their arms are bent and all that. I'd explain more, but i gotta catch a flight and don't have tme to post pics.

Do you have a faster buddy? Maybe he could follow you and show you the ropes.

I checked some of the photos. Most are from the opposite side they are leaning(If going left you see right side of the bike) but I got some in.

Sadly I don't have really any faster friends being I'm the one who got most of them into motorcycles. One guy in our group use to race motorcycles but I'm really only off on Sunday and he is usually working then with him being a Paramedic. I'm hoping to get some time with him and eventually get to a racing school (Ed Bargy) if I could ever get my bike track ready.

Also I'm not a fan of riding in groups though I do sometimes. I got use to riding alone and really do just about everything alone in my life(Motorcycles has actually forced me to interact which is kind of interesting). So when I was the only one with a bike I never met any other riders and were weary of other riders becuase I didn't want to pick up their bad habits and assume they are right.

[DLIT]

Your footing is very important. What I do, and most do, is place the ring-finger toe right above the very outside edge of the peg. Then rotae your heel against your heel guard. This will make it feel better when extending your knee out. Another thing is to place at least half your ass off whatever side of the bike it's leaning. I think you'll realize you were nowhere near dragging when you actually try it. That's what happened to me. i had to hang off like a fucking monkey to get it down.

Now, I bring my knee to the ground by leaning the bike. I know where the max lean for my bike is near and I no longer extend my knee way out. did at first to get the feel for it, but I'm still working on perfecting everything. I still weight my arms too much at times. Gotta work on that shit.

[No Worries]

The Total Control book and class are very good for learning the correct way to turn. Most of my mass is in my upper body, so I hang that off and keep my skinny knees hugging the tank. That, plus I'm one of those idiots that uses the rear brake to set up for turns. Also, my old bike redlines at 8.5K so I have to be ready to shift often. So I keep my legs pretty much in the same place for left or right turns and just shift my upper body by rocking left or right.

[OTB]

Ya gotta remember: the purpose of kneedraggin' is not to drag the knee; it's to move your weight into the center of the turn to allow you to hold the bike up straighter. This does two things; it keeps hard parts from dragging, and it allows you to get on the gas earlier. Too many riders plop their butts on the seat and then try to drag the knee.

Weight on the ball of the feet, butt just brushing the seat, nuetral weight on the arms, elbows slightly bent (yes most of your weight is supported by the knees, just like motocrossers) allows you to pivot the bike underneath you from right to left and left to right quickly, instantly, and works the suspension less. Experiment with your seating position when upright, you will understand how quickly it works.

The purpose of moving your armpit over the tank (or rotating over the tank) is to put some weight forward and keep the front tire loaded under acceleration.

Do these things and don't worry about draggin' it... as you become smoother, that will take care of itself.

JMHO

[Mr Lefty]

http://mcnicholas.smugmug.com/photos/46139713-O.jpg

so which one is correct? by their wording it seems as though the top left is... but I'd say the top right or bottom right makes keeps the bike more upright. :idk:

[Rider]

so which one is correct? by their wording it seems as though the top left is... but I'd say the top right or bottom right makes keeps the bike more upright. :idk:

The top right is the correct form. Although in the bottom right the guys head in in the correct position.

[OTB]

so which one is correct? by their wording it seems as though the top left is... but I'd say the top right or bottom right makes keeps the bike more upright. :idk:


There is no "Right" or "Wrong"...I have used all of those positions....depending on the circumstances. Top right or lower left is what you'll be doing on the track, but all of these positions should be what you practice. Ya gotta remember that unless you live in North Dakota, roads ain't flat; they go uphill, downhill, decrease radius, increase radius, extreme camber, reverse camber, crowned, dished and endless combinations thereof......each of these positions has a place in your bag of tricks.

[Mr Lefty]

The top right is the correct form.

that's what I was thinking... but the commentary is kinda miss leading

There is no "Right" or "Wrong"...I have used all of those positions....depending on the circumstances. Top right or lower left is what you'll be doing on the track, but all of these positions should be what you practice. Ya gotta remember that unless you live in North Dakota, roads ain't flat; they go uphill, downhill, decrease radius, increase radius, extreme camber, reverse camber, crowned, dished and endless combinations thereof......each of these positions has a place in your bag of tricks.

never thought of that... but it makes perfect sense.... :dthumb: damn glad your here man

[No Worries]

http://mcnicholas.smugmug.com/photos/46139713-O.jpg

So leaning off the bike to lower the bike's center of gravity is the important thing when going around a corner. If you can lower it by leaning your upper body and/or sticking your knee out, then that's good. But you know what this means? The thicker the chicken strip, the more upright the bike is, and the more the rider is leaning off correctly.

[Mr Lefty]

So leaning off the bike to lower the bike's center of gravity is the important thing when going around a corner. If you can lower it by leaning your upper body and/or sticking your knee out, then that's good. But you know what this means? The thicker the chicken strip, the more upright the bike is, and the more the rider is leaning off correctly.

but that goes back to the top right one saying he doesn't look as cool! :lol:

[Smittie61984]

but that goes back to the top right one saying he doesn't look as cool! :lol:

I'm concered about my street cred for Bike Nights. That is my main concern.

Which is why I buy used racing gear, track take offs and I drug my boots along the ground to make it look like I was peg scraping.

Plus lots of Chrome and Polish so others know I can ride fast.

Appreciate all the info guys. Just need some parking lot time and hopefully one day some track time.

[Mr Lefty]

remember when you get the track take off tires... to get their knee pucks also...

[Cutty72]

So leaning off the bike to lower the bike's center of gravity is the important thing when going around a corner. If you can lower it by leaning your upper body and/or sticking your knee out, then that's good. But you know what this means? The thicker the chicken strip, the more upright the bike is, and the more the rider is leaning off correctly.

So it's NOT that we have a lot of straight flat roads in ND... it's really cause I am a kick ass rider!! :rockwoot:

[Mr Lefty]

nope

[Smittie61984]

remember when you get the track take off tires... to get their knee pucks also...

I normaly just have a friend tow me behind a truck to scrape them up. Didn't work so well when I tried it with shorts.

I found a decent size culdesac that was in an industrial center. it's somewhat off the road and you can see burnout marks from where people leaving a Truck Customs store well burnout in their custom trucks. Fairly clean and slightly angled.

I messed around with it some but I didn't think about it until after I ate some dinner at a restaurant nearbye and didn't want to try too much with cold tires. Especially with my Pilot Race Take Off that does not like to hook up when cold.

[azoomm]

I'm concered about my street cred for Bike Nights. That is my main concern.

Which is why I buy used racing gear, track take offs and I drug my boots along the ground to make it look like I was peg scraping.

Plus lots of Chrome and Polish so others know I can ride fast.

Appreciate all the info guys. Just need some parking lot time and hopefully one day some track time.

Might I recommend actually doing a trackday and taking some personal time with an instructor rather than reading about it and practicing what you THINK you understood on an online forum.

Bad habits are the worst thing to try and break.

Last week I had an Army Ranger at the track for the first time. He has been riding a total of three months, most of them before he went to Iraq a year ago. He was scraping knee by the end of the day.

FWIW, scraping a knee isn't the entire point of riding well at the track. It's about being smooth, being predictable, managing your bike and corning well. For some, that includes hanging off the bike like a monkey. Forget about your knee... work on everything else. Especially if you aren't going to be riding at the track. Because, scraping a knee does not belong on the street.

[Mr Lefty]

Might I recommend actually doing a trackday and taking some personal time with an instructor rather than reading about it and practicing what you THINK you understood on an online forum.

Bad habits are the worst thing to try and break.

Last week I had an Army Ranger at the track for the first time. He has been riding a total of three months, most of them before he went to Iraq a year ago. He was scraping knee by the end of the day.

FWIW, scraping a knee isn't the entire point of riding well at the track. It's about being smooth, being predictable, managing your bike and corning well. For some, that includes hanging off the bike like a monkey. Forget about your knee... work on everything else. Especially if you aren't going to be riding at the track. Because, scraping a knee does not belong on the street.



:lol:

zoom... it was sarcasam... Smittie knows better... he's just being facaecious


edit... for the post you quoted he was being sarcastic... but your adivce sounds like its more for the origional post... my bad

[azoomm]

:lol:

zoom... it was sarcasam... Smittie knows better... he's just being facaecious

Well, thank fucking god.......

I wish I had our instructional pictures to post... the first picture is of a guy at the track looking at his knee going through the corner, second in the series is running off the track, third is flying through the air.

*phew*

I love it when people work on just getting a knee down...

[Mr Lefty]

Well, thank fucking god.......

I wish I had our instructional pictures to post... the first picture is of a guy at the track looking at his knee going through the corner, second in the series is running off the track, third is flying through the air.

*phew*

I love it when people work on just getting a knee down...

you most DEFINATLY need to get those photos posted up here! for a laugh but also for the informational aspect!

[azoomm]

you most DEFINATLY need to get those photos posted up here! for a laugh but also for the informational aspect!

Just for you man... I'll work on it JUST for you :)

I just, holy crap... it wasn't his post so much as the rest after it. I was just horribly confused and kind of skeeerd. Someone hold me. Wait, scratch that.

:lmao:

[Mr Lefty]

Just for you man... I'll work on it JUST for you :)

I just, holy crap... it wasn't his post so much as the rest after it. I was just horribly confused and kind of skeeerd. Someone hold me. Wait, scratch that.

:lmao:

yeah gotta watch it... you'll end up with OSP holding you... upside down... with his face burried in.... :leaving:

[OneSickPsycho]

yeah gotta watch it... you'll end up with OSP holding you... upside down... with his face burried in.... :leaving:

That's how I roll.

[Smittie61984]

I'm not too concerned with scraping a knee. Hell the only reason I leave the knee pucks on my pants is becuase I feel like it will be more protection in a crash. I'm wanting to work more on my technique than anything else. If my knee touches the ground I'll be happy because but I know a knee on the ground isn't everything.

Right now I don't really have the cash for a track day. I'm about to start a new job(I hope) that actually pays less but has better hours(And Saturday's off). In which I plan to go to night school for the next 4+ years along with some Saturday classes if available.

Nor do I know how to prep my bike for track. Also tracks(Atleast the one I live near which is Road Atlanta) require Race Compound tires in good condition. So I'm having trouble wanting to spend $400+ just for track tires that won't be good later on.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to do a track day and if I'm not dead somehow in the next year or so I will get a track day in some shape or form(Even if I have to jump my bike over hte fence) For now I want to get my technique close as I can since I don't know any better riders than me. I'm not saying I'm good but I don't know many experienced riders much less ones that I trust know what they are doing and want to help me out.

Which when I do some parking lot practice I'll get someone to film me and take pictures and people can point out what I'm doing wrong. WHich could help greatly.

But again the advice has been excellent and has helped me with turns I have been on everyday since i've been riding.

[Mr Lefty]

Check out some of the threads in the Track section... I think Zortness made one on how to prep your bike for the track...

never mind found it for ya

http://twowheelfix.com/showthread.php?t=237