When to slow down

[Trip]

I been thinking a lot about this lately. Specifically with risk and enjoyment factor. When I got into riding, all I wanted to do was "go fast" just like Ricky Bobby. Constantly working on body position and better lines. I've done the whole knee down thing and never really enjoyed the track. It was ok, but it wasn't a true addiction like it is to some people. I prefered street always. Just the travel and scenery as opposed the same thing over and over again. And I am a cheap son of a bitch, so the cost vs enjoyment was never really there. Although even at the gap, I would just end up watching the idiots more than riding the road.

This was in the back of my mind the entire rally. I ended up leading a lot of rides and ran a decent pace for others to follow, but the enjoyment of running at the speeds was no longer there. It's not that it wasn't comfortable speeds for me, I was taking it easy 95% of the time and well in my comfort zone, but just talking with others who were riding slower and enjoying the area I missed a lot of what was off the road. I ended up riding mid pack up to the gap and had a blast taking it very easy and just enjoying the ride and the surroundings.

As most of you know, I am fixing up the 600rr to sell it. I think it is time to move on from sportbikes. They aren't really comfortable on slow rides and suck for packing for trips. I am looking more into the adventure tourer realm. Something I can just take up the gravel/dirt roads a new found hobby after buying the DRZ.

I been talking with a few other members about it and they seem to be moving in the same direction. As well as a few locals. I don't think it's the risk that worries me as much, because I ran the gap as fast I have ever run it this weekend, but it just wasn't fun. It was more like ego pushing me to run it at those speeds. Again I wasn't riding at a speed I hadn't been accustom to or pushing it beyond my means. I use to ride at those speeds cause it was fun, not for "hey look how fast I am" type of thing. I made about 3 passes all day yesterday on a clean road empty of cops. My normal on a full day like that would be high teens if not more. I don't know, I don't know if it is time to just hang up the race helmet and pick up a DS one or just take a break from it.

Gas, what do you think? I know you came to this same choice when you made the move to big dog. What was your whole decision process?

[JoJoYZF]

If your hearts not in it, there is no reason to keep doing it. Youd be better off finding a new type of bike that will make you enjoy riding again. If you stick with sportbikes, itd be like continuing to date a girl that you dont want to be with, you wont be happy until you find something new.

[CrazyKell]

I notice that in the past year or so I've changed my riding style as well.

For me it depends who I'm with. I ride differently depending on the group and that dictates the speed of the ride. When I'm out with a certain group of boys it's balls to the wall and I'll admit I get a thrill from the speed of that. But I've noticed that I hardly go out to those rides anymore. :idk:

I prefer to meander along at my own pace now. It's not that I can't ride at those speeds, it's not that I can't keep up....it's that I don't necessarily want to. I'll rail in the corners but when it comes to straights I just can't be bothered anymore. :idk:

Doesn't help that 50 over the speed limit up here is an automatic racing ticket and license suspension. :skep:

[Tmall]

Ill just say I should have bought the buell lightning, not the firebolt...

Tells you where I'm at with riding.

[Avatard]

Just add Geritol to your diet, and get some depends in case you shit yourself in a tough turn.

[shakes head]

...Old folks...sheesh.

[the chi]

You know I'm right there with ya man. Wasnt it nice to see that waterfall? And smell the jasmine blooming? And stop to admire the mountains?

I feel sad that its not the rush and thrill it used to be, but at the same time, its not like we're quitting riding altogether. Im thinking of it more as an evolution. (That or like I said in my other thread, Im just getting old. :wink:)

[Trip]

Just add Geritol to your diet, and get some depends in case you shit yourself in a tough turn.

[shakes head]

...Old folks...sheesh.

:lol: I still got the DRZ to ride like a fuckin hooligan. It's more fun to me than the CBARRR is. Could always motard it out. If I get the itch again.

You know I'm right there with ya man. Wasnt it nice to see that waterfall? And smell the jasmine blooming? And stop to admire the mountains?

I feel sad that its not the rush and thrill it used to be, but at the same time, its not like we're quitting riding altogether. Im thinking of it more as an evolution. (That or like I said in my other thread, Im just getting old. :wink:)

You missed out on the ride me and ebbs took on the way down to Suches. We took an easy pace and it was freakin amazing to see all that crap. I just don't have the bike to take rides like that all the time, I would be wore out from a long ride like that on a normal basis.

[Rider]

I know where you are coming from Trip. When I bought my gixxer I was having a hard time deciding if a full sport bike was that way to go. My next bike may be in the way of a Super Duke, or something of that nature. I want something that I can be a hooligan on from time to time. Maybe a SM or something.

As a lot of you know I struggled with the decision last year on what to buy. Be assured though.. You will NEVER see me buy a cruiser.

[fasternyou929]

Damn, sounds like it's time to change this place to Wheelchair Fix! :lol:

I know where you guys are coming from, but I'm nowhere close to it yet. I still love setting faster laps on the track and the competition of it all. And I definitely still enjoy a brisk pace through some twisty mountain roads.

But you can bet the day I stop enjoying it is the day I slow down and/or change what I ride. That's what we're all out here for is to do what we enjoy.

[CrazyKell]

I know where you guys are coming from, but I'm nowhere close to it yet. I still love setting faster laps on the track and the competition of it all.


I've yet to try the track but can't wait! I have a feeling I'm going to love it!

[KSGregman]

I took a big crash on my GSX-R750....shattered my right hip socket....didn't walk for 3 months...didn't walk without a limp for 3 months after that. I rebuilt the 750 and rode for another season...but the "thrill" was largely gone. It was uncomfortable to ride over the road...and I always felt like a spring wound too tight when riding it...like, this is boring as fuck...and it would just build and build and build until I was compelled to wring it's neck just for something to do...for some fun.

I fell in love with the M109-R's when they first came out in 2006....the lines....that massive V-Twin motor....I knew I was going to get one...just a matter of when. I bought one new in 2007....and haven't looked back. I can ride all day not be beat up....and actually ENJOY the ride....I don't have that frustrated "when can I wring this things neck" feeling anymore....It has PLENTY of power...and it gets through the twisties pretty well for a big bike. I honestly wouldn't go back to a SS.

I've been getting the ADV itch lately too....I'd like to have an dual sport....to take off roading....camping and all of that. I spend hours on the ADVRiders forums living vicariously through the ride reports there....it probably won't be long before a F800 or GS1200 appears in my garage to keep the M109-R company.

I think things change....people change...their reasons for wanting to get out there and ride change....and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Ride the ride that makes YOU happiest...that is the entire point of getting out there. :dthumb:

[Porkchop]

Ahhhh.... ya old coot! :lol:

Just joking, why not an ST? Still get the power, but add functionality, seating position, and luggage space? :idk:

[Mr Lefty]

I'm with ya trip... Thought to be honest... Not sure I've ever been in love with the blazing speed(probably cause I'm not blazing fast:lol:) but the risk just aren't worth it to me.

I've always been into the adventure of roadtrips. Ill keep the 600rr but I'm gonna be buying something that makes roadtrips more entertaining. The DS's get me excited just thinking about it. The rr will stay... But I have a feeling ill be putting more of my time,$, and heart into the adventure touring.

[wildchild]

i'll chime in. early 40's been riding since i was 5. a few years back i stopped riding. it was no longer fun. everytime i rode i pushed harder trying to find the old excitement. it just wasn't there. I'm not blazing fast but i've done a lot of things on street and dirt that should have ended with me in a box. so no fun i quit. missed the hell out of riding in general though. wasn't sure what to really do for fun. my identity has almost always been with bikes.
so i went back to riding on a CBR600f4I. not bad but still not fun. So I tried one more thing and switched back to HD. i started with them many years ago.
suddenly riding is fun again. maybe it was the break, maybe it's just the different style. i do enjoy taking the sweepers slower and enjoying the scenery. the smells and just the vibe of the machine.
most of my friends have either crashed hard or just quit from boredom so now days i ride a lot alone. the cruiser works nice for it.not saying i'd never go back but for awhile i think i'll keep the cruiser. i did pass on the big bike though. felt way too big to flip through traffic in the city. i ride congested roads to work and have to be able to manuever quickly on a regular basis.
I don't mind not having to scan every turn and ramp for johnny law either.

Oh and don't worry about the scooter tramps here disowning you. For the most part the HD guys want nothing to do with us because we wear too much gear and the sportbike guys for the most part ride with anybody as long as you do wear gear. lol

[t-homo]

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u233/trroth/Indy/IMG_0783.jpg



I don't ride hard on the street due to the risks. I absolutely love it and can't wait to get to the track though. I've also been considering sport touring, but not really sure.

[Trip]

you are still banned

[shmike]

Don't sell the RR, paint it pink.

You don't want to ride slower, you want to ride GAY-er.

The Smirnoff gives it away.

[Trip]

Don't sell the RR, paint it pink.

You don't want to ride slower, you want to ride GAY-er.

The Smirnoff gives it away.

I actually thought about doing something goofy like that. I would love to piss off the tourists by passing them with a gay pink bike.

[Looni2ns]

Trip, you've just learned the true meaning of "The Pace".

When I'm at the track, I'm hauling like I've got a pack of mad dogs on my butt. All I have to focus on are my skills, my bike, and the next turn. The track is clean, no cops, no gray-hairs turning in front of me.

But out on the roads, like those around Suches and the Gap, it's different. Gravel, gray-hairs, cops, oil on the road, and tar snakes make the experience totally different. Saturday, my focus was completely different. Oh, and then add the rain.

Think a different riding environment, like a track day, would give you more pleasure than trying to haul butt and stay alive on the street? Or is it something else that makes you think about a different type of bike and riding style?

[t-homo]

"The Pace" is an incredible article.

[Trip]

Trip, you've just learned the true meaning of "The Pace".

When I'm at the track, I'm hauling like I've got a pack of mad dogs on my butt. All I have to focus on are my skills, my bike, and the next turn. The track is clean, no cops, no gray-hairs turning in front of me.

But out on the roads, like those around Suches and the Gap, it's different. Gravel, gray-hairs, cops, oil on the road, and tar snakes make the experience totally different. Saturday, my focus was completely different. Oh, and then add the rain.

Think a different riding environment, like a track day, would give you more pleasure than trying to haul butt and stay alive on the street? Or is it something else that makes you think about a different type of bike and riding style?

See below for my feelings on track days. I need something different. I am very much a goal oriented person and I have accomplished what I wanted out of sportbikes and I don't have the desire to be a time trial track day person or the interest to commit myself to the amount I would require out of myself to pursue racing. I was watching long way round with ebbs and just felt that type of riding is something I would enjoy tremedously. I have always loved traveling to new places more than actually being there. That's what I hate about flying commercial. The travel is gone. It would also open up new goals in my riding.

never really enjoyed the track. It was ok, but it wasn't a true addiction like it is to some people. I prefered street always. Just the travel and scenery as opposed the same thing over and over again.

[G-Rex]

I know where you're coming from. I want to add a Goldwing and a R1200GS to my stable still, and I get a lot of shit for wanting the Goldwing. I've discovered though that the people who give me crap for it have never ridden one. :lol:

I enjoy the track *when* I'm able to go, but I get the most enjoyment when I'm out on a multi-week trip seeing what the country has to offer. Having a proper steed has allowed me the opportunity to go from one end of the country to the other and see everything in between.

I'm proud to say that my Busa has 52k on it and I've seen the coasts and everything in between. The west coast pictures were taken in July of 2005. The east coast pictures were taken in July 2006. :D

http://www.twowheelfix.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1884&stc=1&d=1226415740

[Trip]

I know where you're coming from. I want to add a Goldwing and a R1200GS to my stable still, and I get a lot of shit for wanting the Goldwing. I've discovered though that the people who give me crap for it have never ridden one. :lol:

I enjoy the track *when* I'm able to go, but I get the most enjoyment when I'm out on a multi-week trip seeing what the country has to offer. Having a proper steed has allowed me the opportunity to go from one end of the country to the other and see everything in between.

I'm proud to say that my Busa has 52k on it and I've seen the coasts and everything in between. The west coast pictures were taken in July of 2005. The east coast pictures were taken in July 2006. :D

I will never give you crap about wanting a goldwing, for one I have been owned by one several times at the gap. Damn Rick and his ability to pilot the yellow wolf before he got rid of it.

Yeah, when I look at advrider and your blog. Just makes me lust after what I been missing. Especially some of the advrider posts where they go on those dirt roads to the middle of nowhere to snap unbelieveable pics.

[the chi]

Does that mean YOU would start carrying around a camera?

:lol:

[Trip]

Does that mean YOU would start carrying around a camera?

:lol:

probably not, photos are for other people, memory is for me.

[the chi]

At one time I would have agreed, but these days, if I dont have photographic evidence, I forget it happened. Advanced ADHD alzheimers maybe? :lol: I can look at photos and it brings it all back.

[Rider]

More often then not there are things in my life that I don't want to remember. So cameras are not a high priority.

[CrazyKell]

At one time I would have agreed, but these days, if I dont have photographic evidence, I forget it happened. Advanced ADHD alzheimers maybe? :lol: I can look at photos and it brings it all back.

Me too! Too bad I lost mine in St. Louis this year. :(

[Trip]

More often then not there are things in my life that I don't want to remember. So cameras are not a high priority.

:lol: everyone always wants to forget the wrong turns in life.

[Mr Lefty]

probably not, photos are for other people, memory is for me.

True... But photos can spark memories you've forgotten you remember. (it makes sense I swear)

I need to be better about taking more photos. I get in a rush too much.

[Trip]

True... But photos can spark memories you've forgotten you remember. (it makes sense I swear)

I need to be better about taking more photos. I get in a rush too much.

That's why you keep making new memories, sorry I am just not a fan of photos when it comes to my life.

[the chi]

True... But photos can spark memories you've forgotten you remember. (it makes sense I swear)

I need to be better about taking more photos. I get in a rush too much.

Coming from the guy who takes several hundred pics in one day...

:lol:

[Mr Lefty]

That's why you keep making new memories, sorry I am just not a fan of photos when it comes to my life.

To be honest I enjoy taking the photos more than looking back at them.

[the chi]

To be honest I enjoy taking the photos more than looking back at them.

Ditto. And I enjoy others enjoyment of them.

[Trip]

To be honest I enjoy taking the photos more than looking back at them.

Yeah, the taking is more of a hobby for you.

Ditto. And I enjoy others enjoyment of them.

You aren't like ebbs, you are more like andrea, annoying with a camera. :nee:

[the chi]

Yeah, the taking is more of a hobby for you.



You aren't like ebbs, you are more like andrea, annoying with a camera. :nee:


:gofurslf: WHATEVER. Jerk. *sniff*

[Mr Lefty]

Yeah, the taking is more of a hobby for you.



You aren't like ebbs, you are more like andrea, annoying with a camera. :nee:
:rofl:

[Trip]

:rofl:

see that's how you stay in the circle, douche

:gofurslf: WHATEVER. Jerk. *sniff*

thank you, you are such a sweetie

[Mr Lefty]

Lol well it just be sad if you kicked yourself out of your circle.

[the chi]

see that's how you stay in the circle, douche



thank you, you are such a sweetie


ARRRGHHHHHH. Wheres the "kick you in the shins" smilie? All he did was laugh, I legitimately insulted you. Dammit. Hate you all. GRRR.

I know, Im so threatening right? *sigh*

[Mr Lefty]

Aww look she's purring

[Trip]

ARRRGHHHHHH. Wheres the "kick you in the shins" smilie? All he did was laugh, I legitimately insulted you. Dammit. Hate you all. GRRR.

I know, Im so threatening right? *sigh*

you know how movies have stunt people, you need an angry person to sub in for you when you need to be. :lol:

[the chi]

you know how movies have stunt people, you need an angry person to sub in for you when you need to be. :lol:

You volunteering?

[Trip]

You volunteering?

:lol:

[ceo012384]

Take up racing. Seriously.

Cruise the street, rip up the woods, shred the track.

The only reason I want a street bike again is to chill with my friends.

[Particle Man]

Dude, you could have saved a lot of typing and just said, "I want a BMW GS"

Me too :lmao:

[Looni2ns]

See below for my feelings on track days. I need something different. I am very much a goal oriented person and I have accomplished what I wanted out of sportbikes and I don't have the desire to be a time trial track day person or the interest to commit myself to the amount I would require out of myself to pursue racing. I was watching long way round with ebbs and just felt that type of riding is something I would enjoy tremedously. I have always loved traveling to new places more than actually being there. That's what I hate about flying commercial. The travel is gone. It would also open up new goals in my riding.

I fully understand. There are times when I'd love to strap on the tail and saddlebags and just head out. This country is huge, and there are so many places that are absolutely amazing. Both Long Way Around and Long Way Down were amazing. Don't know if I could rough it like they did, but it'd be fun trying in my own way.

My uncle turns 90 in August. He lives in Somesville, ME, just outside of Bar Barbor on Mt. Desert Island. Most of the island is the home of Acadia National Park. I'd love to ride up to his party on the 8th, and then ride back home. That would be a neat trip.

[Trip]

Dude, you could have saved a lot of typing and just said, "I want a BMW GS"

Me too :lmao:

:lol: pretty much

I fully understand. There are times when I'd love to strap on the tail and saddlebags and just head out. This country is huge, and there are so many places that are absolutely amazing. Both Long Way Around and Long Way Down were amazing. Don't know if I could rough it like they did, but it'd be fun trying in my own way.

My uncle turns 90 in August. He lives in Somesville, ME, just outside of Bar Barbor on Mt. Desert Island. Most of the island is the home of Acadia National Park. I'd love to ride up to his party on the 8th, and then ride back home. That would be a neat trip.


Yeah, that would be great. I want to get up to nova scotia too.

[Mr Lefty]

I wanna ride to chilie. Take some pics in the andes

[marko138]

I'm not necessarily ready to sell the Firebolt...but I'm all but certain my next bike is a Harley.

[G-Rex]

I spent a night in Bar Harbor, ME prior to getting on the Cat Ferry to Yarmouth, NS to spend a week riding in Nova Scotia. Bar Harbor was amazing. It was nasty weather the day I rolled in, so I wasn't able to go through Acadia National Park, so I have an excuse to go back. :lol:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if anybody ever has the opportunity to ride to/through Nova Scotia, do it. Of 47 states and 6 Canadian provinces I've ridden through, Nova Scotia is at the top of my list. Absolutely amazing! I love it there!

[Particle Man]

I spent a night in Bar Harbor, ME prior to getting on the Cat Ferry to Yarmouth, NS to spend a week riding in Nova Scotia. Bar Harbor was amazing. It was nasty weather the day I rolled in, so I wasn't able to go through Acadia National Park, so I have an excuse to go back. :lol:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if anybody ever has the opportunity to ride to/through Nova Scotia, do it. Of 47 states and 6 Canadian provinces I've ridden through, Nova Scotia is at the top of my list. Absolutely amazing! I love it there!i think you mean "bah hahbah"

[Porkchop]

I'm not necessarily ready to sell the Firebolt...but I'm all but certain my next bike is a Harley.

Nooooooo..... dont go to the dark side! :panic:

[Trip]

I am considering a older model GS after talking to a few people about the newer GS issues. The older ones are suppose to be tanks while the new ones can't take a beating.

[Mr Lefty]

I am considering a older model GS after talking to a few people about the newer GS issues. The older ones are suppose to be tanks while the new ones can't take a beating.
more money for mods!:rockwoot: you'll need it

[JoJoYZF]

This is only my third season riding and Im no where near fast but I already know where youre coming from trip. I see myself having a newer ss as my next bike and doing some track days and then either adding or trading for something like a busa to use as a sport tourer like grex to just take long trips on.

[Yamerhaw]

i honestly think, the day i give up sportbikes, will be the day i quit riding for good.... cruisers, motards, tourers just dont do it for me, that being said, i enjoy riding a slower pace as much as i do hauling ass, lately i've been slowing it down overall, but i probably wont give up sportbikes and their awesome power, braking, handling, etc... I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!!

[Gas Man]

Gas, what do you think? I know you came to this same choice when you made the move to big dog. What was your whole decision process?

Your thought process is a bit different. I was going out and pushin pushin pushin the limit farther. I was doin stupid shit on public streets for the high of it. Get home and realize how fuckin stupid it was. How much I had to loose for a few seconds of adrenaline. Couple that with my desire to not be a squid or associated with a squid. I just knew it was time to get rid of the 9R. I knew if I just bought a 600 I would do the same thing but ring its neck to get the speed of the 9R. I knew I had to get off sportbikes. They just have to go fast, they aren't made to kick back.

I went to the chopper. I still wanted power and needed cool replacement. Last year when i would ride the wife's HD I felt that I was just riding to ride and for the enjoyment of the ride by itself. It wasn't about how cool I or the bike looked... just enjoy the ride. It was then when I realized I was over the "coolness" of the totally custom chopper. So I went the way of the HD and love it.

I love the "turn key", I love the ability for it to travel on its own. No trailer, no added nothing. It can just go. I can not wait to do some traveling on the new bike.

So see, my story is a bit different but the end results are just as similar as the way we got to this place. We want to enjoy the ride.

You know I'm right there with ya man. Wasnt it nice to see that waterfall? And smell the jasmine blooming? And stop to admire the mountains?

I feel sad that its not the rush and thrill it used to be, but at the same time, its not like we're quitting riding altogether. Im thinking of it more as an evolution. (That or like I said in my other thread, Im just getting old. :wink:)

That's what its about. Again, enjoying the ride.

I'm not necessarily ready to sell the Firebolt...but I'm all but certain my next bike is a Harley.

What you going for? XR?

[marko138]

What you going for? XR?

You got it. I've got a call into my dealer to demo one. My buddy is thinking about giving up his GSXR for the HD Rocker, as well.

[dReWpY]

i want a versys or klr....

[pickle.of.doom]

You got it. I've got a call into my dealer to demo one. My buddy is thinking about giving up his GSXR for the HD Rocker, as well.

extreme gayness. You will all be disappointed greatly when you realize what a HD really is...

[KSGregman]

extreme gayness. You will all be disappointed greatly when you realize what a HD really is...

Agreed.

All show....not much go. The ULTIMATE posuer bikes.

Get a metric power cruiser....much better performance and reliability....for half the cost.

[papapoi]

I have had my Sv 650 since 2006 and i still haven't got tired of it. i just like to get out and ride even if i just go out for a couple hours. my next bike will be a touring bike. i dont think i could part with the SV, its just a great all around bike, but i do miss my 78 Yamaha xs11.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

already had this convo w/ u at the rally, u know my opinion.

I never ride hard enough to put a knee down on the street anymore, and i use the bike mostly for travel. Granted its not the most comfortable thing in the world, but its still fun for me. I think i'd like to get something more rugged though. Ive been going out riding a lot of adventures and stuff lately and they are very apealing. Mixxing camping and touring just sounds swell.

[Tmall]

Agreed.

All show....not much go. The ULTIMATE posuer bikes.

Get a metric power cruiser....much better performance and reliability....for half the cost.

This is Bs plain and simple. I've ridden a few Harleys and their Jap clones. I'd pick the Harley any day.

If you can't see how much better the Harley is built, then you're looking with your eyes closed.

As for performance, I was very surprised at how hard apocs bike pulled to 110mph. I was even more amazed at how little damage it received sliding down the road. One single scratch...

You can sit here all day and spew anti Harley propoganda. Those of us who notice the diddrence between rc cola and coke like to pay a bit more for better quality.

[Trip]

This is Bs plain and simple. I've ridden a few Harleys and their Jap clones. I'd pick the Harley any day.

If you can't see how much better the Harley is built, then you're looking with your eyes closed.

As for performance, I was very surprised at how hard apocs bike pulled to 110mph. I was even more amazed at how little damage it received sliding down the road. One single scratch...

You can sit here all day and spew anti Harley propoganda. Those of us who notice the diddrence between rc cola and coke like to pay a bit more for better quality.

:lol: I love harley fanboys. Harley isn't quality, it's a name brand that people want. The engineering and quality control of those machines are marginal at best. The engineering and quality control of the rice machines are well above anything harley has nowadays.

[HokieDNA01]

Kerry's buddy had a HD dressers with the new rubber mounted engines. The engine shook it self right off the frame mounts and almost wrecked him.

[askmrjesus]

It's a bit of a quandary. I get bored riding on the street, unless I can go fast. If I wanted to go slow, I'd take the bus. I've heard people talk about "scenery", but I've never seen any.

Problem is, now I'm fucking old, and having had the benefit of racing on the track, I find myself thinking about things like runoff, proximity of the nearest hospital, and how many times I can break my legs before they say, "fuck you, asshole" and leave me for a stamp collector.

About 20 years ago, a friend introduced me to dual-sports. I was hesitant, (there's all kinds of rocks and shit in the way, what a fucking stupid idea) but I warmed up to it when I realized I got the same rush dodging rocks and trees at 35mph, as I did dodging Buicks at 120mph.

There's another problem though... The KTM will do 80 on the gravel no problem at all, and since I'm an idiot, I will do 80 on the gravel along with it. Now I'll be the first to tell you, that doing 80 on gravel is stupid fast, stupid dangerous, and, well, just plain stupid.

It would seem that no matter what I ride, I still want to go fast, even though I know better.

BMW, sportbike, dirtbike, vintage bike, pocket bike, I don't care. I only have one question: How fast can I go without crashing the fucker?

JC

[shmike]

It's a bit of a quandary. I get bored riding on the street, unless I can go fast. If I wanted to go slow, I'd take the bus. I've heard people talk about "scenery", but I've never seen any.

Problem is, now I'm fucking old, and having had the benefit of racing on the track, I find myself thinking about things like runoff, proximity of the nearest hospital, and how many times I can break my legs before they say, "fuck you, asshole" and leave me for a stamp collector.

About 20 years ago, a friend introduced me to dual-sports. I was hesitant, (there's all kinds of rocks and shit in the way, what a fucking stupid idea) but I warmed up to it when I realized I got the same rush dodging rocks and trees at 35mph, as I did dodging Buicks at 120mph.

There's another problem though... The KTM will do 80 on the gravel no problem at all, and since I'm an idiot, I will do 80 on the gravel along with it. Now I'll be the first to tell you, that doing 80 on gravel is stupid fast, stupid dangerous, and, well, just plain stupid.

It would seem that no matter what I ride, I still want to go fast, even though I know better.

BMW, sportbike, dirtbike, vintage bike, pocket bike, I don't care. I only have one question: How fast can I go without crashing the fucker?

JC

Amen.

Unfortunately, I usually find out the answer to the question in red about 2mph too late. :lol:

[askmrjesus]

Amen.

Unfortunately, I usually find out the answer to the question in red about 2mph too late. :lol:

That's usually how it works. :lol:

Over the years though, I've learned to listen to that voice in the back of my head that says, "dude, you need to slow the fuck down a little".

Key words being, "a little".

JC

[Rsv1000R]

I only have one question: How fast can I go without crashing the fucker?

JC

How do you know how fast you can go unless you crash?

[Rider]

How do you know how fast you can go unless you crash?

You can't go any faster than WOT. :welcome2:

[KSGregman]

This is Bs plain and simple. I've ridden a few Harleys and their Jap clones. I'd pick the Harley any day.

If you can't see how much better the Harley is built, then you're looking with your eyes closed.

As for performance, I was very surprised at how hard apocs bike pulled to 110mph. I was even more amazed at how little damage it received sliding down the road. One single scratch...

You can sit here all day and spew anti Harley propoganda. Those of us who notice the diddrence between rc cola and coke like to pay a bit more for better quality.

No, actually....it's not.

It's no secret that HD has had, and continues to have, quality control issues.

You're fooling yourself if you think that you are paying extra for "quality"...you are paying extra for "image"....for the HD "brand."

[Rider]

You're fooling yourself if you think that you are paying extra for "quality"...you are paying extra for "image"....for the HD "brand."

I agree with this whole heartily. HD is ALL about image.

[Tmall]

:lol: I love harley fanboys. Harley isn't quality, it's a name brand that people want. The engineering and quality control of those machines are marginal at best. The engineering and quality control of the rice machines are well above anything harley has nowadays.

Rice fanboy or Harley fanboy? What's the diff?


As for being a fanboy, I'm far from it. I was a closed minded Harley hater like the rest of you up until a few years back. Then I stopped listening to what others said and tried them. And after that, I stand 100% behind what I said.


Just because you and people like to do not like something doesn't mean its garbage and your opinion isn't the only one that counts.

You make it seem as though Harley riders are brainwashed sheep, yet the average sportbike rider just buys whatever has the best spec sheet in most cases.


and its not like the Harley rider can't afford the Jap clone. They just choose not to buy it..

[Tmall]

And sportbike riders are buying what if its not an image?

The majority of us are out classed by ninja 500s. Obviously nobody needs more than that. They must be buying an image..

[Rider]

And sportbike riders are buying what if its not an image?

The majority of us are out classed by ninja 500s. Obviously nobody needs more than that. They must be buying an image..

I don't think buying a GSXR 750 would be considered an "image". It's a niche market for people who want middle weight handling with liter bike performance. What image would be portrayed by that other than a performance minded individual. HD riders (for the most part) are going for the "tough guy" image. No gear, big gut, over compensation for their tiny dick, more money than brains type individual.

[Trip]

Rice fanboy or Harley fanboy? What's the diff?

As for being a fanboy, I'm far from it. I was a closed minded Harley hater like the rest of you up until a few years back. Then I stopped listening to what others said and tried them. And after that, I stand 100% behind what I said.

Just because you and people like to do not like something doesn't mean its garbage and your opinion isn't the only one that counts.

You make it seem as though Harley riders are brainwashed sheep, yet the average sportbike rider just buys whatever has the best spec sheet in most cases.

and its not like the Harley rider can't afford the Jap clone. They just choose not to buy it..

The difference is I am not a fanboy of either. I am in process of selling my reliable Honda for a reliable adv tourer that isn't a rice bike. I am getting a BMW (omg it's not a rice bike) because that's what they are known for in the field I am choosing to ride in, just like the Honda was reliable in sportbikes.

BTW, it's not people like us who say it. Harley's are known worldwide for their mechanical issues, just as they are as well known worldwide for their image which brings them the business in the face of their problems.

You are a fanboy, you refuse to look at overwhelming evidence widely available anywhere about reliability and quality control of the japs vs harleys. Sure any harley guy can buy a much cheaper jap bike, we all understand how money works, but thanks for pointing that out.... We also understand how marketing and image works, which you seem to be lacking in knowledge.

And sportbike riders are buying what if its not an image?

The majority of us are out classed by ninja 500s. Obviously nobody needs more than that. They must be buying an image..

The ninja 500s are seriously lacking in braking and suspension for anyone who wants to track it. If you are putting around town is one thing, but if you are wanting to take it to the track, you would need to invest a lot more in performance parts than it would cost to get stock 600 which is already well setup for that use.

[Frostz28]

well Ive ridden all diffrent types of bikes including HDs and their jap clones. In my opinion Harleys are not all they are cracked up to be. all the HDs Ive ridden have been uncomfortable and clunky (for lack of a better word) My dad is a big Vulcan fan and I have to say Id take a Vulcan 1500 over any HD Ive ever ridden. As far as when to slow down.... Ive kinda been struggling with that myself, but for diffrent reasons. all my friends sold their bikes. Some of them bought track bikes and just ride on the track. Others just flat don't have a bike anymore. I can't bring myself to give up riding on the street but I have been seriously considering trading in the GSXR on a cruiser or sport tourer and grabbing a track bike for going to the track and getting my speed fix.

[shmike]

Buying a Harley is buying an image.

Anyone who disputes that is unwilling to admit the truth.

Buying a modern Harley is buying a quality bike.

Anyone who disputes that is: still living in the AMF days or hasn't ridden a modern HD or is just reiterating what they have heard at the local Jap shop/hangout/sportbike night.

[askmrjesus]

How do you know how fast you can go unless you crash?

Any idiot can crash. The secret is to almost crash, and then back off a bit. :lol:

JC

[Tmall]

:lol: you're a fanboy and you're buying an image...


You guys crack me up.

[Porkchop]

You can sit here all day and spew anti Harley propoganda. Those of us who notice the diddrence between rc cola and coke like to pay a bit more for better quality.

HEY..... i like RC......

:lol: I love harley fanboys. Harley isn't quality, it's a name brand that people want. The engineering and quality control of those machines are marginal at best. The engineering and quality control of the rice machines are well above anything harley has nowadays.

Exactly, buying the name.... This country is an ipod/redbull/HD nation.... just buing the name on the first thing you think of. And honestly, all three of them are crap. And I refuse to buy any of them.

yet the average sportbike rider just buys whatever has the best spec sheet in most cases.

Not necissarily.... maybe trackies yes. But for the average street rider the individual buys on ergonomics that suits them best and looks.

I mean when i was looking at new bikes last year, the honda had won basically every comparo for the past 2 years, but Hondas never fit me well and i hate the looks of the newest gen 600RR. And while it may have been back of pack sixx's zx-6r fit me the best....

[Particle Man]

Those of us who notice the diddrence between rc cola and coke like to pay a bit more for better quality.

Nehi creme soda.

[Trip]

Barqs red creme soda ftmfw

[Particle Man]

Barqs red creme soda ftmfw

I remember when Nehi was available in glass botles and came in wooden crates of 12

[Amber Lamps]

Town Club FTW!

[Porkchop]

Ummmm.... Tigger.....

Did someone use the powers that be on you or what? Cause I know that's not your doing.....

:lol:

[marko138]

extreme gayness. You will all be disappointed greatly when you realize what a HD really is...

Not likely.

Agreed.

All show....not much go. The ULTIMATE posuer bikes.

Get a metric power cruiser....much better performance and reliability....for half the cost.

You clearly haven't seen a review of the XR. I have zero interest in a metric cruiser. ZERO. They all look like shit. Harley's look good and they sound better. And the XR can still handle business. I'm for it.

[Trip]

You clearly haven't seen a review of the XR. I have zero interest in a metric cruiser. ZERO. They all look like shit. Harley's look good and they sound better. And the XR can still handle business. I'm for it.

Cruisiers all look similarly like shit, :lol:

The XR is like a new/old camaro/mustang/charger. It's like WTF, we can't come up with anything new, so lets redo a classic and make it fucking stupid. It's American for we fuckin suck now, so let's try and bring back the glory days.

[Amber Lamps]

The time to slow down is when YOU decide. It's just that simple. The only thing to look out for is I've seen people take the step you're contemplating and make the mistake of trying to ride the replacement bike like an ss. Anyway, the key is for you to be happy. Who gives a fuck what other people think? Do whatever makes you happy right now, there's no law that says you can't ever come back to sportbikes later.

[the chi]

The time to slow down is when YOU decide. It's just that simple. The only thing to look out for is I've seen people take the step you're contemplating and make the mistake of trying to ride the replacement bike like an ss. Anyway, the key is for you to be happy. Who gives a fuck what other people think? Do whatever makes you happy right now, there's no law that says you can't ever come back to sportbikes later.

Who is this and where's Tigger?

:skep:

Too close to reason and rationality there buddy...

:lol:

[Mr Lefty]

already had this convo w/ u at the rally, u know my opinion.

I never ride hard enough to put a knee down on the street anymore, and i use the bike mostly for travel. Granted its not the most comfortable thing in the world, but its still fun for me. I think i'd like to get something more rugged though. Ive been going out riding a lot of adventures and stuff lately and they are very apealing. Mixxing camping and touring just sounds swell.

I'm sold on the F800GS... now just to sell my truck so I can buy one...

[Gas Man]

This is going to get long... but I think with my history, knowledge and wrenching time in the garage that makes my 2 cents better than most.


You got it. I've got a call into my dealer to demo one. My buddy is thinking about giving up his GSXR for the HD Rocker, as well.

Sounds like a built in riding group

Agreed.

All show....not much go. The ULTIMATE posuer bikes.

Get a metric power cruiser....much better performance and reliability....for half the cost.

Better performence? Are you kidding me? My wife's old 883 whooped many metric cruisers including the great Hondas (Shadow 1100 and VTX 1300) with much less motor size.

This is Bs plain and simple. I've ridden a few Harleys and their Jap clones. I'd pick the Harley any day.

If you can't see how much better the Harley is built, then you're looking with your eyes closed.

As for performance, I was very surprised at how hard apocs bike pulled to 110mph. I was even more amazed at how little damage it received sliding down the road. One single scratch...

You can sit here all day and spew anti Harley propoganda. Those of us who notice the diddrence between rc cola and coke like to pay a bit more for better quality.

I agree with performence as said above and anybody that wants a show can go for a ride with me. Bring your rice cruiser and we'll see.

:lol: I love harley fanboys. Harley isn't quality, it's a name brand that people want. The engineering and quality control of those machines are marginal at best. The engineering and quality control of the rice machines are well above anything harley has nowadays.

So how many rice and hd's do you wrench on? That's what I thought! I do and newer 2005+ hd's are top notch. Pretty much EFI fixed a great deal of the HD's problems. Do you have any idea how much time HD now puts into R&D? Its insane... take a hd factory tour. Then feel free to try the same with your rice...

Rice fanboy or Harley fanboy? What's the diff?


As for being a fanboy, I'm far from it. I was a closed minded Harley hater like the rest of you up until a few years back. Then I stopped listening to what others said and tried them. And after that, I stand 100% behind what I said.


Just because you and people like to do not like something doesn't mean its garbage and your opinion isn't the only one that counts.

You make it seem as though Harley riders are brainwashed sheep, yet the average sportbike rider just buys whatever has the best spec sheet in most cases.


and its not like the Harley rider can't afford the Jap clone. They just choose not to buy it..

I had much the same mindset when on my rockets. Why would I want a hd that can't hit 100mph in second gear? That's fuckin stupid. Then the changes happened by me and HD. I still didn't want a HD at first that's why I got the big dog. But then I got the wife's 2007 sporty... it changed my mind.

I don't think buying a GSXR 750 would be considered an "image". It's a niche market for people who want middle weight handling with liter bike performance. What image would be portrayed by that other than a performance minded individual. HD riders (for the most part) are going for the "tough guy" image. No gear, big gut, over compensation for their tiny dick, more money than brains type individual.

Interesting... you never said this to me in person before...

The difference is I am not a fanboy of either. I am in process of selling my reliable Honda for a reliable adv tourer that isn't a rice bike. I am getting a BMW (omg it's not a rice bike) because that's what they are known for in the field I am choosing to ride in, just like the Honda was reliable in sportbikes.

BTW, it's not people like us who say it. Harley's are known worldwide for their mechanical issues, just as they are as well known worldwide for their image which brings them the business in the face of their problems.

You are a fanboy, you refuse to look at overwhelming evidence widely available anywhere about reliability and quality control of the japs vs harleys. Sure any harley guy can buy a much cheaper jap bike, we all understand how money works, but thanks for pointing that out.... We also understand how marketing and image works, which you seem to be lacking in knowledge.



The ninja 500s are seriously lacking in braking and suspension for anyone who wants to track it. If you are putting around town is one thing, but if you are wanting to take it to the track, you would need to invest a lot more in performance parts than it would cost to get stock 600 which is already well setup for that use.

HD has been changing their public view with some great machines lately... open your mind. Same goes for the american cars. Today's Chevy/Ford is WAY WAY better than a 2001. Just is!

Buying a Harley is buying an image.

Anyone who disputes that is unwilling to admit the truth.

Buying a modern Harley is buying a quality bike.

Anyone who disputes that is: still living in the AMF days or hasn't ridden a modern HD or is just reiterating what they have heard at the local Jap shop/hangout/sportbike night.

I deny that I bought my bike for an image, the chop, maybe, but not the hd. There isn't a rice bike out that can compete with my ultra besides maybe a goldwing and I don't like them. But Yam, Suz got nothing.

Exactly... I'm not defending yester year HD. Today's HD's are money!

Not likely.



You clearly haven't seen a review of the XR. I have zero interest in a metric cruiser. ZERO. They all look like shit. Harley's look good and they sound better. And the XR can still handle business. I'm for it.

Exactly. Every other rice cruiser is trying to imitate an HD. Deny that and you don't know what you are talking about.





Oh... ok

But this thread is suppose to be about Trips BMW and his choice to step away from sportbikes. So who wants to debate my knowledge on the subject at hand? Before you say anything... check my garage lift thread. That's just a taste of my expierences.

[Mr Lefty]

http://vimeo.com/3913841

[Particle Man]

a whole buncha shit

I just have one question: if you have any extra HD's lying around send one my way :lmao:

[Gas Man]

No extra's 2 new ones taps me out...

[Trip]

Better performence? Are you kidding me? My wife's old 883 whooped many metric cruisers including the great Hondas (Shadow 1100 and VTX 1300) with much less motor size.

I agree with performence as said above and anybody that wants a show can go for a ride with me. Bring your rice cruiser and we'll see.

So how many rice and hd's do you wrench on? That's what I thought! I do and newer 2005+ hd's are top notch. Pretty much EFI fixed a great deal of the HD's problems. Do you have any idea how much time HD now puts into R&D? Its insane... take a hd factory tour. Then feel free to try the same with your rice...

HD has been changing their public view with some great machines lately... open your mind. Same goes for the american cars. Today's Chevy/Ford is WAY WAY better than a 2001. Just is!

Exactly... I'm not defending yester year HD. Today's HD's are money!

Exactly. Every other rice cruiser is trying to imitate an HD. Deny that and you don't know what you are talking about.

Oh... ok

But this thread is suppose to be about Trips BMW and his choice to step away from sportbikes. So who wants to debate my knowledge on the subject at hand? Before you say anything... check my garage lift thread. That's just a taste of my expierences.

Sorry, I know American engineering vs the world. We aren't improving. Defend us all you want, American is not what it once was. Keep your chevy/dodge/ford or any of that other crap. Detroit can suck my ass.

As for everyone trying to copy HD. Have you actually researched their history. They have a knack for copying other designs as well.

I'm more than willing to put up Honda R&D to Harley R&D any day of the week. It's like F1 vs NASCAR R&D.

[101lifts2]

Sorry, I know American engineering vs the world. We aren't improving. Defend us all you want, American is not what it once was. Keep your chevy/dodge/ford or any of that other crap. Detroit can suck my ass.

As for everyone trying to copy HD. Have you actually researched their history. They have a knack for copying other designs as well.

I'm more than willing to put up Honda R&D to Harley R&D any day of the week. It's like F1 vs NASCAR R&D.

Dude how old are you? I think the problem is that you need to ride the 600rr HARDER!!! I'm 36 and I still tear it up hard every weekend.

Anyway, as far as American engineering...its still the best IMO and many suppliers that Detriot uses are components that come from Europe or Japan.

I have an 08 Malibu and a 06 F150 and both are excellent vehicles.

[Trip]

Dude how old are you? I think the problem is that you need to ride the 600rr HARDER!!! I'm 36 and I still tear it up hard every weekend.

Anyway, as far as American engineering...its still the best IMO and many suppliers that Detriot uses are components that come from Europe or Japan.

I have an 08 Malibu and a 06 F150 and both are excellent vehicles.

I am 29. I just don't have the need or want for a sportbike. Sorry, it's just not there for me. I am not you.

I am a product of American engineering. I disagree on our quality.

[101lifts2]

I am 29. I just don't have the need or want for a sportbike. Sorry, it's just not there for me. I am not you.

I am a product of American engineering. I disagree on our quality.

Ok fair enough...get an HD Nighttrain! Or a BMW K1300s.

I'll have to say this about all the engineering I've seen working for GM and now Isuzu. Germans are the smartest, but the Japanese work the longest, but they are not as intelligent as the Americans when it comes to intelligent design. They can, however, manufacturer stuff to a T and repeat it with little flaw. Americans are intelligent, but they get seriously hampered by cost reduction.

I've worked with Bosch and Siemens on a few fuel control and diagnostic controls projects. They have their shit down and they work hard.

[Porkchop]

Germans are the smartest, but the Japanese work the longest, but they are not as intelligent as the Americans when it comes to intelligent design. They can, however, manufacturer stuff to a T and repeat it with little flaw. Americans are intelligent, but they get seriously hampered by cost reduction.

Not to mention lazy???? :whistle:

Matt's neighbor rides a HD from the 70's.... it runs just fine. But I still wouldnt buy one.....

[JoshuaTree]

I'm sold on the F800GS... now just to sell my truck so I can buy one...

:rockwoot:

See I told y'all - resistance is futile... :rofl:

[101lifts2]

Not to mention lazy???? :whistle:

Matt's neighbor rides a HD from the 70's.... it runs just fine. But I still wouldnt buy one.....

I don't necessarily think Americans are lazy moreso than just bored at work. Japanese can be just as lazy or bored if you will, esp. the office workers.

[Mr Lefty]

:rockwoot:

See I told y'all - resistance is futile... :rofl:

No Doubt... I spent half of last night research'n them... read'n up... and of course look'n at aftermarket stuff :lol:

Not to mention lazy???? :whistle:

Matt's neighbor rides a HD from the 70's.... it runs just fine. But I still wouldnt buy one.....

I don't necessarily think Americans are lazy moreso than just bored at work. Japanese can be just as lazy or bored if you will, esp. the office workers.

no... I think what killed Detroit long ago but they've been too stubborn to let go is the Unions. people getting paid $40/hr for a job that should EARN no more than $20/hr.

They drove the prices up... and because their work ethic sucked why pay attention to quality of work. the result is the Domestic market's reputation for sub par vehicles that last (with a few exceptions) about half as long as the Imported counterparts.

Gas... you may be right... the Ford/GM/Christler/HD 09's may all be VERY VERY much better than the 01's... even the 05's... but I still think they're behind the power curve with the imports... namely the Japanese.

[marko138]

Sounds like a built in riding group





You know it. This is the guy I used to ride with all the time. He's really the only guy I rode with. I say rode b/c he's been in West Chester PA for college for the last few years.

[Trip]

Ok fair enough...get an HD Nighttrain! Or a BMW K1300s.

I'll have to say this about all the engineering I've seen working for GM and now Isuzu. Germans are the smartest, but the Japanese work the longest, but they are not as intelligent as the Americans when it comes to intelligent design. They can, however, manufacturer stuff to a T and repeat it with little flaw. Americans are intelligent, but they get seriously hampered by cost reduction.

I've worked with Bosch and Siemens on a few fuel control and diagnostic controls projects. They have their shit down and they work hard.

I am getting a GS of some variety. Looking for a 05 1150 or maybe a new 800. I need to find one of each for the wife to try out which is comfortable for her to ride with me. I would rather the 800, but I want her to take trips with me. It's still possible to rail a BMW. I have seen it done.

I wouldn't say Americans are more intelligent than the Asians, I would say they are more (I don't know if innovative is the right word I am looking for, maybe creative) creative. I would say the average Asian engineer is much more detail focused than average American engineer.

As for Jap cars reliability going down in comparison to American cars reliability on the rise. I don't think that's true because more and more Jap cars are actually being built HERE and not in Japan. I would say it's just more of our own incompetence and the japanese cars are losing their reliability because of us instead of the american cars increasing in reliability.

[Gas Man]

I am 29. I just don't have the need or want for a sportbike. Sorry, it's just not there for me. I am not you.

I am a product of American engineering. I disagree on our quality.
Quote of the day!!! :lol


Ok fair enough...get an HD Nighttrain! Or a BMW K1300s.

I'll have to say this about all the engineering I've seen working for GM and now Isuzu. Germans are the smartest, but the Japanese work the longest, but they are not as intelligent as the Americans when it comes to intelligent design. They can, however, manufacturer stuff to a T and repeat it with little flaw. Americans are intelligent, but they get seriously hampered by cost reduction.


I think that sums it up for the comparo. I love VWs and would be one of the only overseas cars I would consider buying. Well that or a Mazda being most of them are build a mile from my house and mostly owned by Fords.

Take notice I have not knocked the rice anything besides the fact that I think they copy the ideas of HDs and not as fast many of the hd's. But you won't hear me knock their realiability. Hondas are die hard and suz/kaws/yams try to copy.


no... I think what killed Detroit long ago but they've been too stubborn to let go is the Unions. people getting paid $40/hr for a job that should EARN no more than $20/hr.

They drove the prices up... and because their work ethic sucked why pay attention to quality of work. the result is the Domestic market's reputation for sub par vehicles that last (with a few exceptions) about half as long as the Imported counterparts.

Gas... you may be right... the Ford/GM/Christler/HD 09's may all be VERY VERY much better than the 01's... even the 05's... but I still think they're behind the power curve with the imports... namely the Japanese.


I can agree with you on the unions. I have many union buds that work at the big 3 and their suppliers. But understand this... its not the workers or even the unions that have drove these car companies into the ground. Its the miss management by corperate.

And very much so on the vast improvement. My 04 F150 was HUGE HUGE better than my previous ones. But the 09 are even more huge of improvements. It is crazy how much better the american cars are now. I could not believe how quiet the 09 Malibu is inside. I'm talking what I percieve as lincoln/cadillac quiet. I do disagree on the power curve. When the malibu as an example is getting 169hp from a inline 4, I would say american cars are on par EASY!

Finally (at least for this post), Trip... the BDM while uglier than hell will probably be a fine piece of german. I can't wait to see it. Hopefully you'll have it by July!

[Trip]

Finally (at least for this post), Trip... the BDM while uglier than hell will probably be a fine piece of german. I can't wait to see it. Hopefully you'll have it by July!

Me too, I want to have the cbr ready to go next week for the auction block. Hopefully it will sell fast and I can start seriously looking for the BMW.

[Rsv1000R]

I can agree with you on the unions. I have many union buds that work at the big 3 and their suppliers. But understand this... its not the workers or even the unions that have drove these car companies into the ground. Its the miss management by corperate.


Gas, There maybe some miss management (I hate what GM's bean counters do to their product), But how do you manage expenses when you have to much capacity and you can't reduce it because the Unions won't let them?
And how do you fault a company for building product that's selling well in those plants, even if you know you're more susceptible to say an unexpected spike in gas prices.

[wildchild]

actually I think alot of the engineering differences stems from the asians being a more frugal/necessity country versus americans being of the more is better idealogy. It makes for very different design ideas.

[Porkchop]

no... I think what killed Detroit long ago but they've been too stubborn to let go is the Unions. people getting paid $40/hr for a job that should EARN no more than $20/hr.

They drove the prices up... and because their work ethic sucked why pay attention to quality of work. the result is the Domestic market's reputation for sub par vehicles that last (with a few exceptions) about half as long as the Imported counterparts.


Shit.... $40??? Honda workers make $40 an hour. American brand workers make damn near $60 an hour....... :panic:

[Rider]

Interesting... you never said this to me in person before...




.

I didn't say all, I'm saying most. You don't fit the typical HD rider profile. I have respect for a few HD riders, but that is such a small percentage of the total number of riders out there. Am I pointing out the stereotypes? Absolutely.

If I was allowed a camera at work, I'd take a pic of the HD riders compared to the SS riders. All the HD riders here are old and fat and wear novelty brain buckets as a helmet. You can spot them very easily.... It IS an image thing. There is even one guy here that smokes a pipe while he rides... :td:

[Gas Man]

Gas, There maybe some miss management (I hate what GM's bean counters do to their product), But how do you manage expenses when you have to much capacity and you can't reduce it because the Unions won't let them?
And how do you fault a company for building product that's selling well in those plants, even if you know you're more susceptible to say an unexpected spike in gas prices.

I know, the whole damn thing is a house of cards

I didn't say all, I'm saying most. You don't fit the typical HD rider profile. I have respect for a few HD riders, but that is such a small percentage of the total number of riders out there. Am I pointing out the stereotypes? Absolutely.

If I was allowed a camera at work, I'd take a pic of the HD riders compared to the SS riders. All the HD riders here are old and fat and wear novelty brain buckets as a helmet. You can spot them very easily.... It IS an image thing. There is even one guy here that smokes a pipe while he rides... :td:


Just givin ya shit. You left it open :wtfru:

[Mr Lefty]

I can agree with you on the unions. I have many union buds that work at the big 3 and their suppliers. But understand this... its not the workers or even the unions that have drove these car companies into the ground. Its the miss management by corperate.

And very much so on the vast improvement. My 04 F150 was HUGE HUGE better than my previous ones. But the 09 are even more huge of improvements. It is crazy how much better the american cars are now. I could not believe how quiet the 09 Malibu is inside. I'm talking what I percieve as lincoln/cadillac quiet. I do disagree on the power curve. When the malibu as an example is getting 169hp from a inline 4, I would say american cars are on par EASY!

Finally (at least for this post), Trip... the BDM while uglier than hell will probably be a fine piece of german. I can't wait to see it. Hopefully you'll have it by July!

by power curve I hope you know I wasn't talking about HP... just talking about the power curve of reliablility. I don't think toyota or honda ever put out a motor with jaw dropping power... they've always been more longevity based motors. ones that are broken in at 100k... and not broken down.

I will say that American Cars are getting there... making 100k isn't an automatic sale and a 50% knock off the blue book price anymore... but it's 2009.... Toyota and Honda have had motors that did that for 30 years.

I'm amazed the amount of HP the domestic market is putting in some of these cars... 400hp? damn.... and they look great too... but fuck me if I'm gonna spend my money on a truck or car that's 5 years later I've lost 10 grand off the price. shit look up a 04 Tacoma 4x4 extra-cab. still HIGH teens in many markets... and that is an older body style.

Shit my brother ordered an 06 Tundra Limited... paid 32k for it... bought a house and couldn't afford both... was able to sell it a year later with 20k on the ticker for 32k... he literally had it for sale for 3hrs. Granted Tundra's aren't the best full size pickup (especially his year) for work... but it's got the Toyota name and rep....


but ehh... enough about that....

I want the fuck'n 800GS... my damn Xterra needs to sell QUICK!

[derf]

Trip, I can honestly say I understand what youre talking about, I have way more fun tooling around on stoopid random bikes than I do on my own (especially the cheap ones that I'm not afraid to wreck) like a 250 rebel, kz440, or Daryls 50. Hell if I could have ridden that 50 all day I would have.

[The Awesome]

Do you have any idea how much time HD now puts into R&D? Its insane... take a hd factory tour. Then feel free to try the same with your rice...

Are you suggesting we compare the R&D of Harley, who haven't been innovative in any way since long before I was born, to the Japanese companies who live on the bleeding edge of motorcycle development?

When does that Harley GP bike come out again?

EDIT:

Oh, and Trip...

Quit being a little girl and get on the gas.

[shmike]

Harley Researches their target demographic and Designs new t-shirts and bandanas.

[Frostz28]

well Im man enough to admit that this thread has been taken over by people far more intelligent and more experienced that me. I know better than to try to argue with Gas, because he has forgotten more shit than Ill ever know!!! I take his word to be the gospel truth. I just haven't had the chance to swing a leg over to many of the higher priced HDs. Ive had a leg over several but most were pretty well modded and that could have contributed to their poor ride quality. I just could never see why a HD went for nearly twice what say a vulcan would go for. Perhaps theres something to it that I don't know.

As far as american engineering vs. others I still think we have some of the best engineering on the planet. ya we have our flaws but If I have the choice Ill buy american if at all possible. To bad it seems no american company is really interested in jumping into the sport bike market aside from a few buells. Ive only ever driven american cars and trucks, ive taken 5 vehicles over 150k with NO major issues, and one truck over 310,000 miles!!! she was a beast. Still runnin when I got rid of her but the body had completely rusted off her. My current truck is bout to turn over 160k and still runnin strong. my buddy has always driven hondas and while they do run just as long he seems to constantly be getting something little fixed.

I do know a little about unions, long story short they SUCK!!! Im not holding them single handedly responsible for the fall of detroit, they were a big part of it. The vast majority of unions protect lazy workers and drive the cost of production WAY up!

[Gas Man]

Hey I am no mechanic but I will tell you this... you see a great deal more when you start taking parts off at 3 feet in the air on the lift.

And ebbs... I'll put my 280k 1991 Pontiac 6000 LE up to that idea that american cars aren't realiable. Never did anything to the motor or trans besides new fluids.

[Cutty72]

Are you suggesting we compare the R&D of Harley, who haven't been innovative in any way since long before I was born, to the Japanese companies who live on the bleeding edge of motorcycle development?

When does that Harley GP bike come out again?



HD isn't and prob never will make a GP bike. That's not what they are trying to do either.
I don't know all the details, but HD has made a lot of changes/inovations in the last 20+ years. Trust me, a 1989 HD is not the same as a 2009 HD.

As for the jap bikes... compare the first models to HD's of years prior. There were a LOT of similarities. who copied who?

[Mr Lefty]

Hey I am no mechanic but I will tell you this... you see a great deal more when you start taking parts off at 3 feet in the air on the lift.

And ebbs... I'll put my 280k 1991 Pontiac 6000 LE up to that idea that american cars aren't realiable. Never did anything to the motor or trans besides new fluids.

ok... that's one... and I'm sure we could find 100 people with experiences like yours... but 1000 next to the 20000+ you'll find with Toyota or Honda...

there's a reason why domestic's have the rep they do. sure... they may be working to get rid of that... still along way to go.... sorry

[Gas Man]

Notice I still have not said anything bad about say Honda realiability.

[Cutty72]

ok... that's one... and I'm sure we could find 100 people with experiences like yours... but 1000 next to the 20000+ you'll find with Toyota or Honda...

there's a reason why domestic's have the rep they do. sure... they may be working to get rid of that... still along way to go.... sorry

Neighbor back home had a 83 F250 with a 351 in it. Beat the shit out of it, farm truck. Bought it new, NEVER changed the oil. Just the filter, every 10K. I know it hit 280,000 before I went off to college. He still has it and drives it, not sure on current mileage.

[tached1000rr]

I love honda I have had 2 go over 260,000 when I sold them still running.

BUT I've had a 91 s-10 that had 248,000 when I sold it.(original)
A 95 Isuzu Rodeo with 268,000 when I sold it(only replaced starter)
My mustang had 243,000 on it as well (but it was torn apart from racing and adding parts on every weekend lol so guess it does not count)

I have a 2000 Jetta with 268,000 miles on it right now
My 04 Ram has 103,000 miles no problems thus far
02 Nissan Altima at 154,000 only had to rebuild alternator.

[Mr Lefty]

Notice I still have not said anything bad about say Honda realiability.

and I wasn't saying you were... I was just saying that domestics aren't on par with the imports in reliability... and there's still quite a gap imo... but I do think the imports are getting worse... dunno if domestics are getting better though

[Particle Man]

Trip, if you do end up picking up a GS and it's used, ask if the Final Drive has been replaced - they have been known to have issues from what I've heard and fail at the most in-opportune times...

[Trip]

That the 1200. I think I am avoiding that gen and getting a 1150.

[Particle Man]

That the 1200. I think I am avoiding that gen and getting a 1150.

ah. I thought I saw you mention that you were looking at a 1200 somewhere

[Mr Lefty]

He was origionally.

Let's get back talking about the gs's

[Particle Man]

Let's get back talking about the gs's

I thought we were :lol:

[Trip]

Yeah I talked with people and they advised me to stay away from the 1200. Said look for a 1150 if I want a tank

[Gas Man]

and I wasn't saying you were... I was just saying that domestics aren't on par with the imports in reliability... and there's still quite a gap imo... but I do think the imports are getting worse... dunno if domestics are getting better though
I hear ya. Imports aren't getting worse but domestic has made big leaps in that dept over the past years. I'm saying the gap is closing in real quick!

[Particle Man]

I hear ya. Imports aren't getting worse but domestic has made big leaps in that dept over the past years. I'm saying the gap is closing in real quick!

Looking at some of the new machines on the floor at the local HD dealership, I'd say that gap is closing REALLY fast.

[Gas Man]

I mean it on cars and bikes.

[Bassplayer]

hey Trip, get a HD Night Rod those are sick. ... and comfy

[marko138]

hey Trip, get a HD Night Rod those are sick. ... and comfy
I rode one. They are seriously bad ass.

[Amber Lamps]

I rode one. They are seriously bad ass.

Yea but as an adventure tourer....not so much.

[Particle Man]

Yea but as an adventure tourer....not so much.
though a conversion would be pretty freakin' sweet...

[derf]

I came sorta kinda close to buying this down at two when we were changing Tommys tire. The price was right, and I would have ridden the shit out of it.

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/110/l_2c1c0850e0e5fe5aeecfc4513212154b.jpg

[101lifts2]

and I wasn't saying you were... I was just saying that domestics aren't on par with the imports in reliability... and there's still quite a gap imo... but I do think the imports are getting worse... dunno if domestics are getting better though

My brother bought a brand new 2005 Honda Accord EX with a V-6 Auto. The transmission failed at 70k as with many many other Honda automatics. Honda does NOT have reliable automatics.

Toyota had a lawsuit against them which claimed thier Sienna engines built up sludge prematurely (all under 40k). They also had engines fail due to this as well.

I've owned many many GM makes and not one left me stranded vs. a Honda that would not start.

Me thinks you have -0- data other than hear say to back up ur claims. Typical of people believing that anything from over the pond must be better.

[Mr Lefty]

My brother bought a brand new 2005 Honda Accord EX with a V-6 Auto. The transmission failed at 70k as with many many other Honda automatics. Honda does NOT have reliable automatics.

Toyota had a lawsuit against them which claimed thier Sienna engines built up sludge prematurely (all under 40k). They also had engines fail due to this as well.

I've owned many many GM makes and not one left me stranded vs. a Honda that would not start.

Me thinks you have -0- data other than hear say to back up ur claims. Typical of people believing that anything from over the pond must be better.

except for the 7 toyota trucks that I've had that all had over 150k... 5 had over 200k... and two over 500k. never had an issue with any other than my last one which I'm strongly believing was the fault of the dealership who did the maintenance.

I don't believe everything from overseas is better... fuck'n mitsubishi sucks. can't stand their shit vehicles... same with kia, hyundi.

for the record I've owned... 4 domestic vehicles... a GMC Jimmy, Chevy S10 Pickup, an S10 Blazer, and a GMC Sierra 2500. My parents have owned a Chevy Astro van, Ford Aerostar, Ford F150, International (shit can't remember the model but it was like a suburban) Chevy Suburban.

The Jimmy didn't cause me any issues other than going through two alternators... but I sold it to my parents cause I wanted a pickup... and they had nothing but issues.... a weld on the lower Right A arm braking, head gasket blowing, Transfer case going, transmission loosing 3rd gear randomly... and a few other electrical issues.

I could go through and list the laundry list of issues my parents had with all their vehicles... all with less than 100k on them.

mine well with the exception of the Jimmy... mine were all over 100k but under 120... and were deteriorating FAST.

of the Toyota Truck's I've owned... I've had to replace the timing chain on 4 of them (preventive maintenance) and 2 head gaskets... one at 220k... the other at 375k two different trucks.

I've never owned a honda... but there's a reason why they have the rep they do. I've know MANY people who have over 150K on their accord's, and civics... with no issues...

I know very few who've owned domestics with the same claim.

[Gas Man]

You speak of maintance and that brings up an interesting angle I didn't think of...

Maybe those peeps buying their little rice cars get all the service done at dealers cause they are light in their shorts. Hence the cars last longer with fewer problems.

The guys owning the domestics, do it themselves but much like many others are just dumb. Fuck it all up and therefor tuck their shit and go back to the dealer with problems/failures. Failures just like how they live their lives.

Then the few domestic owners, like myself, that know how to service a vechicle or two and get good use from their vechicles.

Hmmmm.... I may be onto something... :lol:

[marko138]

Yea but as an adventure tourer....not so much.

That is a fact, jack.

[Mr Lefty]

You speak of maintance and that brings up an interesting angle I didn't think of...

Maybe those peeps buying their little rice cars get all the service done at dealers cause they are light in their shorts. Hence the cars last longer with fewer problems.

The guys owning the domestics, do it themselves but much like many others are just dumb. Fuck it all up and therefor tuck their shit and go back to the dealer with problems/failures. Failures just like how they live their lives.

Then the few domestic owners, like myself, that know how to service a vechicle or two and get good use from their vechicles.

Hmmmm.... I may be onto something... :lol:

actually I did all the maintenance on all my toyota's after the first one I owned... (stupid easy to work on the 22r or 22re) worked on only one of my chevy's and my GMC. which intailed, 3 or 4 timing belts, 1 or 2 serpentine(on parents vehicles) belts, 3 hubs (wheeling got debris in them), 5 timing chains, 2 head gaskets, 4 cam's (performance upgrades) and a dozen or so tune ups.

all the vehicles I did my own oil and brake's... My last toyota ran perfect until I had the shop work on it... that's when the entire electrical system (alternator, cap, plugs, wires, battery, main fuse ect...) went out... funny timing :idk:


To be honest... if ford made a better truck... I'd buy the ranger... perfect size for me... but 1 don't want a new one... 2 use ones don't last from what I've seen.

[wildchild]

. 2 use ones don't last from what I've seen.


that depends on the previous owner. If he bought a ranger because that was what he needed you'll be fine. If he bought a ranger because he couldn't afford a bigger truck and then overloaded the hell out of it, yeah it might not be any good.

[Rsv1000R]

I've had a number of late 60's-early 70's domestic that were running well into the 100,000 miles whe I got rid of them, Has 3 Chrysler 2.2's all made it to 100,000 with little to no problems when I got rid of them.

[Mr Lefty]

slow down? says who
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3Cu8BZJ_hw&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.advrider.com%2Fforums%2Fshow thread.php%3Ft%3D311795&feature=player_embedded

[Trip]

:lol:

this will totally be me.

http://killboy.blogspot.com/2009/05/impressive_28.html

[Sixxxxer]

Thats Fucking Tits Trip

[Mr Lefty]

and andrea thinks this is a better bike for you :rofl:

[Trip]

and andrea thinks this is a better bike for you :rofl:

no kidding, I will be keeping my suit, I totally want to be that guy that drags knees on a GS up at the gap. :lol:

[Mr Lefty]

so your next thread will be...

I HAVE to slow down...

cause I just caught my panniers mid corner and highsided my GS into Kill boy's new car...


just besure to attach the video of you doing a lorenzo highside :lol:

[Trip]

so your next thread will be...

I HAVE to slow down...

cause I just caught my panniers mid corner and highsided my GS into Kill boy's new car...


just besure to attach the video of you doing a lorenzo highside :lol:

lol, that will be the "My wife just said she would divorce me if i didn't quit riding" thread

I won't take the panniers with me to knee drag, I will drag the kickstand or something

[Mr Lefty]

well make sure you do that AFTER the trip... lol

[JoshuaTree]

... I will drag the kickstand or something

Actually, you'll likely drag the 'engine protection bars' (a.k.a. crash bars) on RH turns or centerstand lever/footpeg on LH turns. ;) And yeah, don't go carving up turns with the nice big EXPENSIVE saddlebags attached... :nono:

:rofl:

[derf]

Actually, you'll likely drag the 'engine protection bars' (a.k.a. crash bars) on RH turns or centerstand lever/footpeg on LH turns. ;) And yeah, don't go carving up turns with the nice big EXPENSIVE saddlebags attached... :nono:

:rofl:

Unless you have Jesse bags cuz then you can just bend them back to shape

[JoshuaTree]

Unless you have Jesse bags cuz then you can just bend them back to shape

Actually, those are more likely to simply 'eject' intact off of the mounting rails rather than hang around for abuse... :idk:


:poke:

[HokieDNA01]

no kidding, I will be keeping my suit, I totally want to be that guy that drags knees on a GS up at the gap. :lol:


This will be Trip on the GS....:rockwoot:

[Mr Lefty]

This will be Trip on the GS....:rockwoot:

:lol: that's the same pic he linked earlier

[HokieDNA01]

:lol: that's the same pic he linked earlier


Opps well shows how I skip through threads. Great minds think alike!

[julie j]

Unless you have Jesse bags cuz then you can just bend them back to shape

My husband I both have the Jesse boxes and so far so good. We have read all the posts from people who either love them or hate them but we both needed luggage for a trip that is coming up fairly soon. We are huge fans of Touratech but the price difference (x2) and the fact that their 2009 brackets make the bikes really wide made us give Jesses a try. My husband did have to do some modifications since the brackets are designed for the round stock exhaust and not the oval aftermarket. It does not suck having a master fabricator in the house! :rockout:

This guy did a lot of research about pannier width:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413424

[derf]

Yeh Jessie bags are about as good as they come, a buddy of mine went down hard and one of them pretty much collapsed flat, all he did was beat it back into shape until it was able to latch and he was fine.

I've also heard stories of the abuse they can take and it's pretty amazing how rugged and well built they are