hey kneedraggers

[mtp]

How many days at the track before you put the knee down?

[PhiSig1071]

I put a knee down on my first day, I also drug my toe and calf slider on my first day.

Part of that is because I am 6'4" and I can almost drag a knee on the kickstand. It was a slight skip in T13 at Jennings. It's a weird feeling, and it's something some people never get used to. I know people who hardly ever drag, and I know guys like me that shred knee-pucks like it's a hobby. Getting a knee down has nothing to do with going fast, but it does look pretty cool!

[Cutty72]

Never done it, haven't been at the track yet either

I've heard some do it day 1 or 2
Others takes many weekends
Others still never get it

All depends on the rider, size, and how they want to push it.

[Trip]

First time, but I had been dragging my knee for a while on the street before I ever set rubber on a track. There is a ton of factors on how long it takes you, I wouldn't focus on it. I would build off a good body position and just learning the bike. Dragging will come.

[DLIT]

My first tim was on the street. then perfected it some more on the street and I was doing it consistanly during my first track day. Since then, I learned how to use it more as a tool than a cool factor. Because you can drag a knee doesn't mean you're fast.

[Mr Lefty]

My first tim was on the street. then perfected it some more on the street and I was doing it consistanly during my first track day. Since then, I learned how to use it more as a tool than a cool factor. Because you can drag a knee doesn't mean you're fast.
from what I hear you dont' want to really "DRAG" the knee... as it's scrubing speed... you wanna just skim it to give you a idea of how far over you are...

[PhiSig1071]

The only thing that dragging a knee actually does is give you an idea of your lean angle, as far as "saving it" with your knee, none of us are that good. I prefer to skim my pucks with very little weight on them (that's why I like hard compound pucks). I have tried putting a lot of pressure on my puck and it just feels weird. Now as far as slowing you down, I highly doubt that any of us are to the point where the resistence of a kneepuck dragging is going to slow us down.

[dReWpY]

i ran my first track day with out leathers or pucks, that sucked, but the first time/ run through the dragon i had touched down on both sides, kinda scary to think i was that close with just txtile pants on, sounds like someone else i know... NtS

[marko138]

Moved to 'track' section. Nothing OT about it.

[DLIT]

from what I hear you dont' want to really "DRAG" the knee... as it's scrubing speed... you wanna just skim it to give you a idea of how far over you are...

Yeah, you'll save more money that way. But when you first start to drag knee, I don't care who you are, you'll want to keep that shit scraping on the ground for the coolness factor.

[the chi]

First time, but I had been dragging my knee for a while on the street before I ever set rubber on a track. There is a ton of factors on how long it takes you, I wouldn't focus on it. I would build off a good body position and just learning the bike. Dragging will come.

truer words never spoken...several very good friends of mine are licensed racers and they say pretty much the same, focus on your body positioning and actual ride, not on getting that knee down, it will come when you are ready!

[Trip]

truer words never spoken...several very good friends of mine are licensed racers and they say pretty much the same, focus on your body positioning and actual ride, not on getting that knee down, it will come when you are ready!

Yeah, but it's easier to say it than it is to do though. I focused on kneedragging and now I got a terrible body position, but hey I can look like a douche and get my knee down with an awful position.... :lol:

[the chi]

i understand...i think part of my reasoning is since I already met the ground before draggin knee, I am in no hurry to meet it again...that and being the perfectionist that I am, i want my positioning to be perfect, so that when I do finally get there, its all one smooth, fluid activity, no worries about if my seat is far enough over or my shoulder is low enough, etc etc...because if I stop to THINK about what I am doing, i will go down...that whole ADD thing i guess...

kinda like the dragon last year...white line white line, JEESUS CLIFF, white line white line...:lol:

[PhiSig1071]

DLIT is right, I know there are a couple corners at JGP where dragging knee is useless (12!) but I do it anyway just for the "cool" factor.

[t-homo]

I can't wait until I am finally good enough to get my knee down with correct body position. It's going to take me a little longer though cuz I'm only 5'8, not 6'2 like most guys.

[DLIT]

I'm at a point now where it's always touching the ground but there's barely any pressure on it. They don't wear too fast thst way. But I want it down so it looks good for the pics.

[the chi]

DLIT is right, I know there are a couple corners at JGP where dragging knee is useless (12!) but I do it anyway just for the "cool" factor.

:lol: I can totally see where it is useless in 12, but at least there is a wide open clear view for pics!!! One day I'll get a decent track pic, hopefully this April!!

[PhiSig1071]

I'm at a point now where it's always touching the ground but there's barely any pressure on it. They don't wear too fast thst way. But I want it down so it looks good for the pics.

Oh hell yeah, that's why I like HARD pucks, they slide easier, and make more noise!

:lol: I can totally see where it is useless in 12, but at least there is a wide open clear view for pics!!! One day I'll get a decent track pic, hopefully this April!!

Yeah, I drag there, 14, 3, and a couple other places where it's not really necessary. My favorite place to drag is 2, just 'cause it messes with people's heads when you go around them in 2 at 120 smokin' a kneepuck. I hope you get some good shots in April, too bad I wont be out there :(

[Trip]

I'm at a point now where it's always touching the ground but there's barely any pressure on it. They don't wear too fast thst way. But I want it down so it looks good for the pics.

Now that your girl has an SLR, you can just do it a few times and worry about riding after that. I know when A is shooting, so I break out the sparkies for that and have fun, then just go back to riding. I basically use mine as a finder now. I know the point where my knee will barely hit before my pegs and once I hit that I bring the puck off the ground and ride it out there. I am going to have to learn that all over again with my vortex rearsets.

[zortness]

I've had the same knee pucks on my suit for over a year. Partially because I have that cursed A* SMX-Plus suit with the damned locking pucks and I can't find them anymore.

I can tell you though, after I took the Pridmore school, my body position improved drastically, the bike felt more comfortable, and my knee-dragging became a much smoother "skim" and the puck would only actually touch at the apex of a corner. I was actually dragging knee with my leg against the fairings in a few turns at SMMR.

After racing for a while though, I can tell you there's more to it. Talking and working with the guys who are a lot faster than me, they go through pucks like mad when they try and push their times down. They will actually put their body weight on the puck to let the bike carry more corner speed. I'm not good enough to do that yet, but if I figure out exactly how, I'll let you all know =P

[lauralynne]

4 years and counting....I've got a couple things working "against" me though - my riding style is such that I tuck my knee in to the bike in a turn and I have REALLY short legs (25" inseam). This year I'm working on my body position more than ever so we'll see. It's not a goal though.

[the chi]

Oh hell yeah, that's why I like HARD pucks, they slide easier, and make more noise!



Yeah, I drag there, 14, 3, and a couple other places where it's not really necessary. My favorite place to drag is 2, just 'cause it messes with people's heads when you go around them in 2 at 120 smokin' a kneepuck. I hope you get some good shots in April, too bad I wont be out there :(

oh heavens, id be laughing my ass off!! I have a few friends who do the "penny pick up" going around several of the turns out there, and its hilarious to watch them do it!! One day I tell myself, one day...:wink:

4 years and counting....I've got a couple things working "against" me though - my riding style is such that I tuck my knee in to the bike in a turn and I have REALLY short legs (25" inseam). This year I'm working on my body position more than ever so we'll see. It's not a goal though.

After crashing because I wasnt riding properly positioned and had my body tucked toooo much, i have really focused on the position, like i said, not so much the knee, but the counter balancing position, i wont repeat my mistake twice!!

That said, racers years ago did not drag knee, it was unheard of until a few guys started doing (cant remember names off the top of my head) so while it looks cool, that doesnt mean its needed to be great!!

[PhiSig1071]

Kenny Roberts was the first to drag a knee, I don't remember who pioneered the "hanging off" style we use now.

[Cutty72]

That had to be a rush... and quite an event.

who was the first to drag elbow?

[PhiSig1071]

That had to be a rush... and quite an event.

who was the first to drag elbow?

That I don't know, but if I had to guess I'd say Ben Spies.

[Cutty72]

That I don't know, but if I had to guess I'd say Ben Spies.

That recent... wow.

[PhiSig1071]

Might have been Scott Russell, for some reason that name sticks in my head. I honestly don't know, the change to dragging knee had a lot to do with body position, before king kenny people really sat on the middle of the bike and didn't "hang off". Elbow dragging isn't a significant difference in body position and in some instances it's not a ton of lean either, it has a lot to do with how you hold your upper body and how long your arms are. I know I could drag elbow if I set out to do it, but I'm 6'4". All I would need to do is press my chest down on the tank, stick my elbow out and down, I can rest my elbow on my knee when I'm riding.

[Cutty72]

True... and most leathers don't have elbow sliders... :panic:

[PhiSig1071]

True... and most leathers don't have elbow sliders... :panic:

I was riding with a guy on a GSX-R1k at Barber who could do it, but he didn't because he said the first time he did it, the leather pulled his elbow and almost yanked his arm right off the bars.

[Mr Lefty]

That I don't know, but if I had to guess I'd say Ben Spies.
I think Hopper was drag'n elbos before Spies... :idk:


but i don't think he was even the first

[NONE_too_SOFT]

i ran my first track day with out leathers or pucks, that sucked, but the first time/ run through the dragon i had touched down on both sides, kinda scary to think i was that close with just txtile pants on, sounds like someone else i know... NtS


hah, im all leathered up now baby. imma take it easy my first couple weeks back though, been off 2 wheels for 6 months, no need to stay off for another 6 cause of injury or property damage.

[Phenix_Rider]

I'd love to, even have the leathers to do it. Problem is- even as far from civilization as I am- the roads are too densely populated. Too many driveways per mile.

[t-homo]

Yeah, I am going to have full leathers before I am even close.

[Cutty72]

I'd love to, even have the leathers to do it. Problem is- even as far from civilization as I am- the roads are too densely populated. Too many driveways per mile.

I don't have the "densely populated" prob you do... i have the "no corners" problem

[t-homo]

all of the roads around my hometown are shitty and change surfaces in the middle of corners. and most have gravel. luckily in my college town they are pretty good.

[azoomm]

Kenny Roberts was the first to drag a knee, I don't remember who pioneered the "hanging off" style we use now.

Nope.

http://www.dainese.com/champions/camp03_3.jpg

With me, I hit a knee... dragged a knee... and now just want to know where the ground is.

[Phenix_Rider]

all of the roads around my hometown are shitty and change surfaces in the middle of corners. and most have gravel. luckily in my college town they are pretty good.

:lol: I'm used to that. You just have to run the road enough to know where he shit is so you can slow down before you hit it.

[Captain Morgan]

First day for me. Like others, I concentrated on it, then realized people were going faster than me without dragging. Too bad I sold the bike before I could really work on better position, etc.

I can't wait until I am finally good enough to get my knee down with correct body position. It's going to take me a little longer though cuz I'm only 5'8, not 6'2 like most guys.

I'm 5'7 and hit knee on my first track day. Freaked me out the first time, but as DLIT said, it's all I did after that. Tried to drag in every corner. I looked cool, but I was slow. :lol:

[NONE_too_SOFT]

wow, seems like i have the right idea... learn to go fast w/o draggin the knee and THEN buy leathers.

[Trip]

wow, seems like i have the right idea... learn to go fast w/o draggin the knee and THEN buy leathers.

not really, your body position is going to need lots of work now that you can get off the bike and not worry about scraping the shit out of your knees. When I watched you, you were making the bike do too much work by not getting off any.

[Katherine]

It took me 9 track days.

I'm 5' even with a 26 inch inseam. I hung off that thing like a spider monkey forever trying to touch knee. A racer talked me into just focusing on body positioning. In fact, the session when I finally touched knee, I was going much slower than I had been because I was focused on how to go into the turn instead of going through the turn as fast as I could.

Good luck!

[zortness]

Buy leathers now. Don't wait until you can "go fast". If you feel like you're going "fast", you're doing something wrong, probably not looking and planning far enough ahead. The track should feel like one fluid motion. Consistency is key to improving.

Here's some visual examples for ya...

Travis is pretty quick, done quite a few track days, but no formal training. On his day 1 video, you can see him fighting his bike.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2698436778719357167
I was working on my own riding in the morning, so didn't get to work with him in the afternoon. We went over his video and talked about a few key points. Consistency, using his legs more, taking all of his weight off the handlebars, and lines. Now, watch his day 2 video and you can see a huge improvement in those areas.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1542747514912413576

Jason is a track day junkie with no intention of racing. He's a big guy, like 6'6", 300lbs. He's done quite a few schools, and it shows in how smooth he is and how comfortable he is trailbraking. In his video, he actually catches me off guard at the beginning and I have to re-adjust, mentally, to follow him.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8796699216404250748


Stephen is a guy I race against. He's really been working on his form and his corner exits in the off-season. We can't go above about 90% pace with the camera on my bike, because I can't tuck and it gets in the way. In his video, you can see a big difference in pace and riding style when compared with the other two.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4221878478717817889

[Phenix_Rider]

not really, your body position is going to need lots of work now that you can get off the bike and not worry about scraping the shit out of your knees. When I watched you, you were making the bike do too much work by not getting off any.

I'm sure I make mine work too much, but it's like OTB and No Worries say. If you're hanging off like a monkey, a cop is going to pick you off right away. If you don't look like you're trying to ride fast, you might get away with it.

[t-homo]

Buy leathers now. Don't wait until you can "go fast". If you feel like you're going "fast", you're doing something wrong, probably not looking and planning far enough ahead. The track should feel like one fluid motion. Consistency is key to improving.


Nice clips. Now since I have seen those I know everything about how to do it right? PG would think so.

Seriously though, I am planning on buying leathers as soon as I can afford it. Should be over the summer. Maybe on May 22, my b-day, my rents will get me the teknic chicane suit if its still 300 bucks.

[Beefcake Morris]

I can't wait until I am finally good enough to get my knee down with correct body position. It's going to take me a little longer though cuz I'm only 5'8, not 6'2 like most guys.

I am 5'5 and from what I have been told is if I stuck my knee out I would be dragging it. Then again why would I want to do that on the street.

[Mr Lefty]

I'm sure I make mine work too much, but it's like OTB and No Worries say. If you're hanging off like a monkey, a cop is going to pick you off right away. If you don't look like you're trying to ride fast, you might get away with it.
but is getting away with it more important than having a safty buffer? if your making the bike work so hard your closer to it's limits... giving you less of a buffer to work with if something goes wrong...

personally I'd take the ticket over loosing the front end..

[Phenix_Rider]

but is getting away with it more important than having a safty buffer? if your making the bike work so hard your closer to it's limits... giving you less of a buffer to work with if something goes wrong...

personally I'd take the ticket over loosing the front end..

I'm not even close to the bike's limits on the street. I'll save that for the track.

[Mr Lefty]

your missing what I'm saying.... when your leaning the bike over... your getting closer to the MAX lean for that situation... if you make the bike work harder... and a unforseen circumstance arises... you have less of a safty buffer...

just as if your straight up and down you have more of a safty buffer than if your leaning even slightly...

I wasn't trying to imply that your riding too close to the limits of the bike...

just that you have less of a buffer to play with if your making the bike do the work

[Trip]

I'm sure I make mine work too much, but it's like OTB and No Worries say. If you're hanging off like a monkey, a cop is going to pick you off right away. If you don't look like you're trying to ride fast, you might get away with it.

I think me hanging off the bike is the least of my worries if I am riding hard enough to be trying to knee drag and come across a cop. If I am riding around town and not riding hard, I probably don't even need to lean that much even if I am hanging off the other side of the bike.

[Mudpuppy]

How many days at the track before you put the knee down?

3rd trackday i got it down 2nd session.. 1st trackday i wasn't even thinking about it.. 2nd trackday i was trying and getting damn close just couldn't get there.. 3rd trackday i forgot about it just rode and it just happened.. scared the shit out of me too the first time i did it.. i thought something on the bike was dragging so i ripped the bike up straight.. it was funny too because a guy that had been to like 8 trackdays and was desperately trying to get a knee down was following me and boy was he pissed off..

[r!der]

Stephen is a guy I race against. He's really been working on his form and his corner exits in the off-season. We can't go above about 90% pace with the camera on my bike, because I can't tuck and it gets in the way. In his video, you can see a big difference in pace and riding style when compared with the other two.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4221878478717817889

Nice videos zort. Damn that rider that passed you guys going into turn 8 was haulin.

[zortness]

Nice videos zort. Damn that rider that passed you guys going into turn 8 was haulin.

That's David, one of my teammates. If you notice, Stephen and I got tripped up through 7. David was far enough behind that he didn't, so he just slingshotted around. I was ready to go catch him, but Stephen was obviously tired.

[Mudpuppy]

i like that track setup.. what is it pretty much open track all day long? that looks very cool..

[ceo012384]

I got it down 1st track day. I did it on purpose the first time just because I wanted to and knew it was possible... then the rest of the day I wasn't trying, and it was getting down naturally by itself.
It's going to take me a little longer though cuz I'm only 5'8, not 6'2 like most guys.
and I have REALLY short legs (25" inseam).
It took me 9 track days.

I'm 5' even with a 26 inch inseam.
Yeah, height is definitely a serious factor. Tall people touch knee down WAY before the traction limits. The shorter you are, the more lean angle required to drag that fucker, and the closer to the tire/machine limits you are before it touches down.

I'm 5'8" with a pretty short inseam (I think it's like 29")