suicides, up?

[RACER X]

man, are suicides up?

my neighbors bro. committed suicide like 2.5 weeks ago
now his wife's cousin committed suicide yest. or today......

both of these were older people, in their 50's.....

[the chi]

Times are hard, and sometimes people cant see another way out...mini great depression perhaps?

[Fleck750]

Loss of jobs and insurance, which paid for the anti depressants might have something to do with it.

If it wasn't for my son, I would have joined them years ago. I really don't like this planet.

[Rangerscott]

MJ's death will do that to some.


What's more of a fail? A person that takes the easy way out or a person that failed at taking the easy way out?

[rogue]

Times are hard, and sometimes people cant see another way out...mini great depression perhaps?

I think so. With the way the economy is, the lost of jobs, etc, it even causes struggles with relationships. Loss of job, stress in a relationship, can't see where light at the end of the tunnel no matter how hard you struggle.....some people can't deal with it.

Loss of jobs and insurance, which paid for the anti depressants might have something to do with it.



Another good possibility since most of the population in the states anyway are on some sort of psychological meds (depression, anxiety, etc). Quitting cold turkey on alot of meds has some horrible side effects, including reality rushing in on them and not being able to cope with it


If it wasn't for my son, I would have joined them years ago. I really don't like this planet.

Sometimes I think if it wasn't for my kids and riding, I'd be in a round room hugging myself. :lol:

[Cutty72]

I know Army wide the number of Suicides is up a great deal. More soldiers lost annually from suicide than combat and training accidents. :no: it's sad.

[derf]

I know Army wide the number of Suicides is up a great deal. More soldiers lost annually from suicide than combat and training accidents. :no: it's sad.

Right but the military is also still less than per % than the rest of the US.

[Cutty72]

Right but the military is also still less than per % than the rest of the US.

True, which is really sad.

Bunch o weenies out there just can't hack the real world

[Fleck750]

Sometimes I think if it wasn't for my kids and riding, I'd be in a round room hugging myself. :lol:

It's painted pink, right? :lmao:

[derf]

Last I saw teh army was at 11 suicides per 100k, and the us was at 18 per 100k, and to add to that the military folks tend to use a more lethal method (think gun to the temple vs a bottle of asprin) so the attempts seem to be much more sucessful

[rogue]

It's painted pink, right? :lmao:

ACK!!!! NoooOOOOO!!!!! :willy::willy::willy:

[Papa_Complex]

From where I sit suicides don't seem to be up. I just got word that an old friend killed himself, a couple of weeks ago. It was two years before that, that I heard about the last. Then two years before that. Then two years before that. Then.....

Now if only I could figure out why my old friends seem to kill themselves with disturbing regularity when I haven't heard from them in a while, I'd be getting somewhere.

[Fleck750]

ACK!!!! NoooOOOOO!!!!! :willy::willy::willy:

On that we agree!!!!

http://tcritic.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/ihatepink.jpg

[z06boy]

Times are hard, and sometimes people cant see another way out...mini great depression perhaps?

Sure sounds like it sometimes....sad.

[Rider]

That's the cowards way out. Sack up, be a man and deal with life. I don't have sympathy for anyone who takes their own life. I do however, have sympathy for the family and friends that suffer from the loss.

[Kaneman]

That's the cowards way out. Sack up, be a man and deal with life. I don't have sympathy for anyone who takes their own life. I do however, have sympathy for the family and friends that suffer from the loss.

Well gee, I'm shocked to hear you take that stance.
________
The Can Vaporizer (http://vaporizers.net)

[HurricaneHeather]

Well gee, I'm shocked to hear you take that stance.

:lol:

[Fleck750]

Well gee, I'm shocked to hear you take that stance.

Must be nice have never had depression. He obviously hasn't, nor anyone he has ever known. Life is nice in a bubble.

[z06boy]

That's the cowards way out. Sack up, be a man and deal with life. I don't have sympathy for anyone who takes their own life. I do however, have sympathy for the family and friends that suffer from the loss.


...or ovary up, be a woman. :lol:

[HurricaneHeather]

Must be nice have never had depression. He obviously hasn't, nor anyone he has ever known. Life is nice in a bubble.

Some people are perfect....you didn't know that Fleck? :lol:

[shmike]

Must be nice have never had depression. He obviously hasn't, nor anyone he has ever known. Life is nice in a bubble.

I've known people with depression.

I've also known the families left behind after suicide.

Depression or not, bubble or not, suicide is the pussy way out.

[the chi]

Must be nice have never had depression. He obviously hasn't, nor anyone he has ever known. Life is nice in a bubble.

I suffer from severe depression, as do many of my family members.

I feel the same way Rider does. What does that make me?


I've known people with depression.

I've also known the families left behind after suicide.

Depression or not, bubble or not, suicide is the pussy way out.

Agreed.

I am sure almost everyone has thought about it at some point, the difference is the acting on it. :shrug:

[unknownroad]

Depression or not, bubble or not, suicide is the pussy way out.

I like pussy :idk:

I'm with fleck... I know that if I lose my job and have to quit my meds cold-turkey... bad things will happen.

[Papa_Complex]

On that we agree!!!!

http://tcritic.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/ihatepink.jpg

I don't. She's cute, in a sleazy sort of way. Reminds me of an ex.

[Dave]

That's the cowards way out. Sack up, be a man and deal with life. I don't have sympathy for anyone who takes their own life. I do however, have sympathy for the family and friends that suffer from the loss.

i dont. Too many parents instead of dealing with the loss go on some insane crusade to make sure it never happens again and only succeed in stealing our time, freedoms, and tax dollars. Deal with the loss, accept what happened and move on without fucking up other peoples lives. Especially if it was your shitty excuse for parenting that caused the situation in the first place

[tommymac]

I can see it withthe older folks now with the economy in the shitter and their retirement monies disappearing. What I am curious to know is are the # of attempted suicides up too. The lame attempts are usualy just a cry for help but if someone is intent on taking themselves out they usualy succede.

Tom

[Papa_Complex]

I can see it withthe older folks now with the economy in the shitter and their retirement monies disappearing. What I am curious to know is are the # of attempted suicides up too. The lame attempts are usualy just a cry for help but if someone is intent on taking themselves out they usualy succede.

Tom

Yup, definitely. The last friend I heard about carefully put all of his stuff in order, wrote his suicide note and will, boxed up everything with names on it for the people he was leaving it to, then went and hung himself in a public park so that his body would be found and he wouldn't stink up the house that he was leaving behind. The ones who really want to die, do.

[z06boy]

I can see it withthe older folks now with the economy in the shitter and their retirement monies disappearing. What I am curious to know is are the # of attempted suicides up too. The lame attempts are usualy just a cry for help but if someone is intent on taking themselves out they usualy succede.

Tom

Agree about the older folks and their retirement or lack of what once was a decent retirement and also that many times an "attempt" is just a cry for help.

I work almost 60 floors up in a building...have guns at home and 4 vehicles capable of 150 + mph. I'm pretty sure "if" I wanted to off myself...I'd succeed on the first attempt.

[tommymac]

Agree about the older folks and their retirement or lack of what once was a decent retirement and also that many times an "attempt" is just a cry for help.

I work almost 60 floors up in a building...have guns at home and 4 vehicles capable of 150 + mph. I'm pretty sure "if" I wanted to off myself...I'd succeed on the first attempt.

Whats bad are the ones that dont, we have had a few gunshot wounds that didnt go as planned, even a few tha thave walked in front of a train and have lived.

Tom

[z06boy]

Whats bad are the ones that dont, we have had a few gunshot wounds that didnt go as planned, even a few tha thave walked in front of a train and have lived.

Tom

Yeah that's alway been a thought too...'if" I ever did try it...my luck I would survive...wake up and have friends and coworkers shaking their head and a police officer standing there and charging me with a crime...I'm an invalid...and still alive.

I'm pretty sure though...of course not 100 % that if I shoot myself with the intent to die...I will. I've been trained how to kill and I have guns capable of making a big mess. Again though...I know nothing is 100 %. That would suck to fail.

[Rider]

Whats bad are the ones that dont, we have had a few gunshot wounds that didnt go as planned, even a few tha thave walked in front of a train and have lived.

Tom

Hanging, cutting wrists, taking pills.. yeah that's just asking for help. I can think of some pretty sure fire ways to end it if you really wanted to. If you really want to do the job right a shotgun blast with 00 buck shot under the chin would get a positive result.

[goof2]

Multiple people every year commit or attempt to commit suicide by jumping off the Sunshine Skyway bridge. Those who jump from the peak (~200ft up) are typically serious. Those who jump from the lower sections (maybe 30ft up) are typically not.

[the chi]

If I was inclined to kill myself, that would be my fear, that I would fail at it.

Altho I was offended when I was told that women are weak and shoot in the chest whereas men being the obviously superior species aim for the head. I always figured if I was gonna off myself, itd be a shot in the head. Good thing I dont need to prove people wrong huh?

[tommymac]

If I was inclined to kill myself, that would be my fear, that I would fail at it.

Altho I was offended when I was told that women are weak and shoot in the chest whereas men being the obviously superior species aim for the head. I always figured if I was gonna off myself, itd be a shot in the head. Good thing I dont need to prove people wrong huh?

Both can be effective or ineffective depending on how therey done. You shred part of the heart or sever the aorta or IVC you will prolly bleed out, will take longer to die as compared to a head shot.

I remember as a student an Er doc gave a guy ahard time after comming in via ems for a suicide attempt. he had a big bottle of percocet states he took 10 of them and there were at least 40 in the bottle still. told him if youre going to do it do it right and take all of them next time. Obviously psych kept him and did wha tthey had to do.

Tom

[Rider]

Both can be effective or ineffective depending on how therey done. You shred part of the heart or sever the aorta or IVC you will prolly bleed out, will take longer to die as compared to a head shot.

I remember as a student an Er doc gave a guy ahard time after comming in via ems for a suicide attempt. he had a big bottle of percocet states he took 10 of them and there were at least 40 in the bottle still. told him if youre going to do it do it right and take all of them next time. Obviously psych kept him and did wha tthey had to do.

Tom

No shit.. why not leave an empty bottle? It's not like you need to save them for use later.

[the chi]

Seriously, that dude was only a cry for help. I could probably take 10 and get a good nights sleep! If I wanted to go out that way, Id take my bottle, and a few extra...come on, get it right if you mean it!

I know thats wrong for those who may be offended...but if you need help, why not ask for it rather than some pathetic attempt to garner attention while causing medical bills, strain and stress on loved ones?

[tommymac]

Seriously, that dude was only a cry for help. I could probably take 10 and get a good nights sleep! If I wanted to go out that way, Id take my bottle, and a few extra...come on, get it right if you mean it!

I know thats wrong for those who may be offended...but if you need help, why not ask for it rather than some pathetic attempt to garner attention while causing medical bills, strain and stress on loved ones?

As an eager naieve student it was kind of shocking ot me, but as a jaded miserable bastid I can see myself doing the same thing now :lol:

Tom

[Rider]

Seriously, that dude was only a cry for help. I could probably take 10 and get a good nights sleep! If I wanted to go out that way, Id take my bottle, and a few extra...come on, get it right if you mean it!

I know thats wrong for those who may be offended...but if you need help, why not ask for it rather than some pathetic attempt to garner attention while causing medical bills, strain and stress on loved ones?

Exactly. The words "I need help" are a hell of a lot easier than eating through a feeding tube for for a while.

[tommymac]

Exactly. The words "I need help" are a hell of a lot easier than eating through a feeding tube for for a while.

that and the activated charcoal we gave him, messy stuff.

Tom

[unknownroad]

If you really want to do the job right a shotgun blast with 00 buck shot under the chin would get a positive result.

Back in the 80s there was a high-profile trial involving Judas Priest- a pair of teens committed suicide by 12-ga after a day-long beer/weed/metal binge. Well, one of them killed himself. The other one just blew the bottom half of his face off, and lived a couple more years. Very unpleasant :nono:

Apparently the trick to sleeping pills is to combine them with a decent-size plastic bag secured over your head. Want time for the pills to take effect before you run out of air and panic.

[tommymac]

Back in the 80s there was a high-profile trial involving Judas Priest- a pair of teens committed suicide by 12-ga after a day-long beer/weed/metal binge. Well, one of them killed himself. The other one just blew the bottom half of his face off, and lived a couple more years. Very unpleasant :nono:

Apparently the trick to sleeping pills is to combine them with a decent-size plastic bag secured over your head. Want time for the pills to take effect before you run out of air and panic.

i remember that, didnt the kid wind up killing himelf anyway?

Tom

[Fleck750]

I suffer from severe depression, as do many of my family members.

I feel the same way Rider does. What does that make me?


So what meds are you on, if any, and do you see a therapist? If the answer is no to both of these, then your life must be miserable.

But wait. You're planning a wonderful wedding with the man of your dreams. So the depression must be manageable and accepted by your intended.

Not being a bitch, just asking what your level of tolerance is. Some people feel bad enough to end their lives, others get help or just live with it.

[karl_1052]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/08/AR2009070803900.html

[karl_1052]

Hanging, cutting wrists, taking pills.. yeah that's just asking for help. I can think of some pretty sure fire ways to end it if you really wanted to. If you really want to do the job right a shotgun blast with 00 buck shot under the chin would get a positive result.

Pills worked for the most famous child molester

:2cents:

[Amber Lamps]

Once the pain gets too great, I'm gonna Kurt Cobain it but not without taking a few other assholes with me!!!:lol:

[Flexin]

So what meds are you on, if any, and do you see a therapist? If the answer is no to both of these, then your life must be miserable.

But wait. You're planning a wonderful wedding with the man of your dreams. So the depression must be manageable and accepted by your intended.

Not being a bitch, just asking what your level of tolerance is. Some people feel bad enough to end their lives, others get help or just live with it.

I don't feel the reason matters at all. Taking your own life is the easy way out. All it does is leave your love ones with a lot of pain.

About 5-10 years ago a kid killed himself in his family home. This was the same sub division that my wife grew up in and her parents still live there. I think myu wife knew who he was, anyway his parents were out and I believe he shot himself. I'm pretty sure his parents are the ones that found him. Anyway they couldn't go back to the house after he did it. The house was cleaned up and sold. He could have took his stupid ass into the woods and did it.

My brothers friend was and easy going guy. Life of the party and so on. One night he was out with friends at a bar, in the morning he walked to the bridge and sat on the railing. A woman walking to work asked him to get down and turned her head for a sec. When she looked back he was gone. The fucker jumped. Now his friends had to deal with losing him after losing three friends to a car crash about a year before if that. I don't think they really know why he did it. I know he took the death his friend in the car crash but do did her other friends. My brother had the next night off to go out and party with her for her birthday. A bunch of her friends and her father (including my brother) got matching tattoos on their calfs. Much better idea then jumping.

I was depressed as a teen. I thought about killing myself. But the more I thought about it the more I know I couldn't do it. I didn't feel anything that was getting me down was worth killing myself for and that would just put my pain on my family. That would have been a prick thing to do. I got over it.

Level of depression? At 21 I found out my girlfriend (my wife now) was pregnant. I canceled my New York trip with about 15 other people because I needed to work to take care of my baby that was on the way. I was ready to stand up and do what I had to do.

During all this my girlfriend walks into my work crying because we were called into the hospital. We get there and they tell us that our daughter was going to have downs syndrome. Then we get the oh sorry, we have the wrong file. About a month later during an ultrasound I see something that didn't look right. The tech noticed it and checked it out more. Then we have to talk to other doctors as well and find out my baby was going to have a mild case of spina bifita.

We were also in the hospital a few time because we thought she was going into labour. On my mothers birthday Lisa was having pains and we ended up in the hospital again. She was in labour this time and the couldn't stop it. We were told she was good to have reg birth. So that what we decided on. My daughter got turned sideways and the umbilical cord was wrapped around her neck. So they rushed Lisa in for a emergency c section.

I was in the room for it and had to listen to them try to get my daughter to take a breath. It took about 10 minutes or so. They were just about to stop when she did.

I had the chance to hold my daughter, one side of her was bruised from them trying to get her out. Lisa did as well but had to hand her off, the meds made her throw up. She doesn't remember holding her.

My daughter was absorbing less oxygen and they said they were giving her the max they could give a child that size.

I went outside and wanted to smash a window or hit the first person I walked by I was so upset. I was wondering what the fuck I did to have this happen to my daughter. I decided hurting someone else wasn't really going to make me feel better so I didn't and I also didn't damage anyones property.

Later at the age of 21 I had to decide if I should leave my daughter on the machines and possibly have her die during the night or take her off the machines. I felt that if I kept her on the machine I was being selfish. If I took her off I was giving up on her.

This happen on Dec 8 1996. I'm still dealing with this today.

Today my mother went into the hospital. If something were to happen to her I don't know how I will handle it.

I don't take meds. I hate medication. I went off of work 4 years ago with anxiety attacks. They meds made me worst because i was pissed that I had be on them and I wasn't fit to be in public on them. I flipped out really easy. Stopping the last one cold turkey without telling my doctor before hand and getting into the ring with my brother the next day wasn't a great idea but I was happy to be off the shit.

Thats my level of depression. Life sucks right now for me but compared to losing my daughter its a walk in the park.

Suicide is the easy way out. I also have no respect for someone that does it.

James

[Fleck750]

Compassion would be better.

[Flexin]

Compassion would be better.

I have compassion when they depressed, that all goes away when they take their own life.

I fell for the all the family members that are now depressed because they didn't notice or maybe didn't do enough to save this person.

When my brothers friend jumped off the bridge another friend of his was really upset. I was talking to him and he said he went out on his deck for a smoke that morning. He said he would have had to walk by there to get to the bridge. He said maybe if I looked down and talked to him or something if I seen him. He said he would normally stop by. He was just thinking about how he might have been able to help him.

Why should I feel anything for someone that killed themselves so they could stop feeling and while doing so cause others pain.

I feel for those that are now hurting. His mother I feel for... His friends I feel for... The woman that almost saved him I feel for... The people that fished his body out of the harbor I feel for... Him who I met and seemed like a good kid, I feel nothing good for...

James

[Fleck750]

There is nothing you can do once they're gone, I know. And most times no one knows a persons intentions. But to condemn them as not manly enough or weak for killing themselves is harsh.

Just saying...

[Flexin]

There is nothing you can do once they're gone, I know. And most times no one knows a persons intentions. But to condemn them as not manly enough or weak for killing themselves is harsh.

Just saying...

No offense but I feel they can go fuck themselves. A woman in Halifax is a widow now because her husband decided he didn't want to live anymore. I like to know what was so bad that he had to leave her alone, crying because she is now alone.

We are just looking at it different. You want to feel for the one that didn't feel like they could deal with their problems. I rather feel for the people they left behind that now have to deal with the problems they left behind and the loss of a love one.

I was pulling out of a gas station when I heard that David Caradine passed away. I was sad when I heard that. I couldn't believe it. Then later I heard he took his own life. I was pissed and said fuck him. I was really disappointed in him. Now I think they say he might have been murdered I guess. Not sure. If his life was taken then I mourn him. If he did it I lose any respect I had for him.

If you feel the way you do because you are depressed I hope you get help. I have family on meds for depression. Depression is a tough think to deal with, but suicide isn't the answer. There is always someone that has is worse then you. Well except for one person. There has to be someone at the top of the list.

James

[askmrjesus]

There is nothing you can do once they're gone, I know. And most times no one knows a persons intentions. But to condemn them as not manly enough or weak for killing themselves is harsh.

Just saying...

I've never really understood this attitude either.

It's like the people in cars that get upset if you're lane splitting. They're miserable and stuck in traffic, and figure you should be miserable too.

Why should someone who has stopped enjoying life, for whatever reason, be condemned for leaving the party early?

My only objection to suicide, is leaving others to clean up your mess.

JC

[Flexin]

I've never really understood this attitude either.

It's like the people in cars that get upset if you're lane splitting. They're miserable and stuck in traffic, and figure you should be miserable too.

Why should someone who has stopped enjoying life, for whatever reason, be condemned for leaving the party early?

My only objection to suicide, is leaving others to clean up your mess.

JC

No the traffic thing is different. If the road is life then the lane splitter is just doing it better. The lane splitter would be like the guy with the big tit model and the one stuck in traffic would be like the guy jerking to the sears catalog.

Now if you want to compare traffic to suicide, the guy sitting in traffic is dealing with life as it comes. Its not always pretty but everyone else has to deal with it.

My aunt didn't end her life when she was dying with cancer (that fucking shit disease that is taking way to many people). Farrah Fawcett fought to the end from what I hear. What could be so bad in my brothers friends life that made his life harder to deal with then that of someone with cancer?

James

[Fleck750]

Why should someone who has stopped enjoying life, for whatever reason, be condemned for leaving the party early?

JC

This planet can be a pretty crappy place. Most days it's a matter of survival for those of us that just get by. I guess I should have made better decisions in life that by age 45 that life would be peachy keen. House paid for, $50k a year, perfect hubby, college educated kids, enough money for whatever vacation I want to take, and enough for hobbies.

Hobbies must be the key, cause those are the things that keep reality at bay. Focusing on reality is what causes depression, because heredity, chemical imbalances, and in being poor certainly can't have anything to do with it. :bash:

[askmrjesus]

No the traffic thing is different. If the road is life then the lane splitter is just doing it better. The lane splitter would be like the guy with the big tit model and the one stuck in traffic would be like the guy jerking to the sears catalog.

Now if you want to compare traffic to suicide, the guy sitting in traffic is dealing with life as it comes. Its not always pretty but everyone else has to deal with it.

You just proved my point through. Why should everyone else have to deal with it, just because you do? It's their life, not yours.

My aunt didn't end her life when she was dying with cancer (that fucking shit disease that is taking way to many people). Farrah Fawcett fought to the end from what I hear. What could be so bad in my brothers friends life that made his life harder to deal with then that of someone with cancer?

James

I can't comment of your brothers friend. I don't know what his reasons were.

I've had cancer, and a stroke, (I'm waiting for a heart attack, so I can qualify for a free toaster), but as long as my quality of life is good, I'm sticking around. After that, who knows? I'm sure as hell not going to wait around, if it's obvious I'm going to croak anyway. I'd rather die happy (ish) than have my family watch me waste away.

JC

[Amber Lamps]

I won't go into detail because I don't want to get into a "my pain is greater than yours" contest or even the slightest whiff of one... I'll just say this, I have had several traumatic things happen to me over the course of my life. I have often thought that it would be better to just cash it in and wave goodbye to this "cruel world" as it were. Just end it.... The thing is then the world would win, it would have beaten me. I can't allow that. I also won't take pills for several reasons but mainly because it's just a patch, a very temporary one at that. In my experience, these so called doctors give this medication far too easily but for good reasons at first. The patient has damn well sufficient reason to be depressed! The medication might be necessary at first. Unfortunately, once they are on this train it's next to impossible to get off.

For example, when she was 13, my ex-girlfriend was getting molested by the guy that ran the pool in their neighborhood. When she finally got up the courage to tell her parents, no one believed her. She had a problem telling lies and the man was a Deacon and a close friend of her father. So she started acting up, getting into trouble and became depressed. A doctor placed her on an anti-depressant and she is still on anti-depressants to this day 14 years later. She still has emotional problems AND now she is a drug addict to boot! I have seen heroin addicts, I have seen crack addicts, I have never seen someone freak out like I saw this girl freak out when she was even one day without her Lexipro! Wonderful. It's a pill for every problem isn't it? :idk: I just don't understand how our ancestors managed considering that they faced far greater challenges and hardships than we do without being on drugs.

[Flexin]

You just proved my point through. Why should everyone else have to deal with it, just because you do? It's their life, not yours.



I can't comment of your brothers friend. I don't know what his reasons were.

I've had cancer, and a stroke, (I'm waiting for a heart attack, so I can qualify for a free toaster), but as long as my quality of life is good, I'm sticking around. After that, who knows? I'm sure as hell not going to wait around, if it's obvious I'm going to croak anyway. I'd rather die happy (ish) than have my family watch me waste away.

JC

People give up over some shit that doesn't matter. Some people are termailly ill and are going to go anyway. Thats a bit different but..

They can give up if they want. Its their life.

Fleck750 said people should feel compassion for those that commit suicide. I can understand feeling compassion for them when they are dealing with life. But why feel bad for them after they commit suicide? They don't have those problems anymore.

James

[tommymac]

No the traffic thing is different. If the road is life then the lane splitter is just doing it better. The lane splitter would be like the guy with the big tit model and the one stuck in traffic would be like the guy jerking to the sears catalog.

Now if you want to compare traffic to suicide, the guy sitting in traffic is dealing with life as it comes. Its not always pretty but everyone else has to deal with it.

My aunt didn't end her life when she was dying with cancer (that fucking shit disease that is taking way to many people). Farrah Fawcett fought to the end from what I hear. What could be so bad in my brothers friends life that made his life harder to deal with then that of someone with cancer?

James

its all perspective, to them it was worse than cancer aids and all the other badness wrapped into one. Kinda like how some people have a big emotional blow up over a little thing and others just roll with it.


Just want to throw this one out there and see what you guys have to say or think about this one. How about a schizophrenic whos off his meds (for whatever reason) and kills himself either because the voices told him too or the voices/hallucinations drove him to the edge.

Tom

[Flexin]

I won't go into detail because I don't want to get into a "my pain is greater than yours" contest or even the slightest whiff of one... I'll just say this, I have had several traumatic things happen to me over the course of my life. I have often thought that it would be better to just cash it in and wave goodbye to this "cruel world" as it were. Just end it.... The thing is then the world would win, it would have beaten me. I can't allow that. I also won't take pills for several reasons but mainly because it's just a patch, a very temporary one at that. In my experience, these so called doctors give this medication far too easily but for good reasons at first. The patient has damn well sufficient reason to be depressed! The medication might be necessary at first. Unfortunately, once they are on this train it's next to impossible to get off.

For example, when she was 13, my ex-girlfriend was getting molested by the guy that ran the pool in their neighborhood. When she finally got up the courage to tell her parents, no one believed her. She had a problem telling lies and the man was a Deacon and a close friend of her father. So she started acting up, getting into trouble and became depressed. A doctor placed her on an anti-depressant and she is still on anti-depressants to this day 14 years later. She still has emotional problems AND now she is a drug addict to boot! I have seen heroin addicts, I have seen crack addicts, I have never seen someone freak out like I saw this girl freak out when she was even one day without her Lexipro! Wonderful. It's a pill for every problem isn't it? :idk: I just don't understand how our ancestors managed considering that they faced far greater challenges and hardships than we do without being on drugs.


I feel the same way. Life is a bitch but I can't be beat that easy. I lost my daughter so being broke or being stuck in traffic or something else stupid is just a cake walk.

I'm the same way with pills. When I was in the car accident I wouldn't take the pills after the first couple of days. Thats not a permanent fix. I told the doctors that I'm still in pain with the meds so why take them? I wanted my back fixed not the problem covered up.

James

[askmrjesus]

This planet can be a pretty crappy place. Most days it's a matter of survival for those of us that just get by. I guess I should have made better decisions in life that by age 45 that life would be peachy keen. House paid for, $50k a year, perfect hubby, college educated kids, enough money for whatever vacation I want to take, and enough for hobbies.

Hobbies must be the key, cause those are the things that keep reality at bay. Focusing on reality is what causes depression, because heredity, chemical imbalances, and in being poor certainly can't have anything to do with it. :bash:

Don't get me wrong Fleck, in most cases, I think suicide is only the answer, because you're asking the wrong question.

Yes, the world is indeed a crappy place. Things don't always go as planned, and people aren't as happy as they would like to be.

If living well is the best revenge, then living at all is a close second. Remember this, you can be just as poor at the beach, as you can in KC...

JC

[Amber Lamps]

You just proved my point through. Why should everyone else have to deal with it, just because you do? It's their life, not yours.



I can't comment of your brothers friend. I don't know what his reasons were.

I've had cancer, and a stroke, (I'm waiting for a heart attack, so I can qualify for a free toaster), but as long as my quality of life is good, I'm sticking around. After that, who knows? I'm sure as hell not going to wait around, if it's obvious I'm going to croak anyway. I'd rather die happy (ish) than have my family watch me waste away.

JC



See but this is why I left Michigan. I was diagnosed with throat cancer in '06 and after a couple surgeries to remove the other tumors they decided that the one on my jugular has got to stay. It would have been easy to give up at that point, too easy. I watched my father waste away and die this way spitting blood as he drowned in it. I definitely don't want to go out like that. I also don't want to make other people watch me die that way either. I couldn't take the "coward's way out" so I took a different coward's way out and split. Cashed everything in, severed all ties and moved away. It was easier for everyone. I can go to my chemo sessions in peace and they can go on with their lives. If it magically goes away, then I'll possibly go back. If I die, they'll never even know. Win, win!

Besides, who knows maybe Bambi will finally get me!:lol:

[tommymac]

See but this is why I left Michigan. I was diagnosed with throat cancer in '06 and after a couple surgeries to remove the other tumors they decided that the one on my jugular has got to stay. It would have been easy to give up at that point, too easy. I watched my father waste away and die this way spitting blood as he drowned in it. I definitely don't want to go out like that. I also don't want to make other people watch me die that way either. I couldn't take the "coward's way out" so I took a different coward's way out and split. Cashed everything in, severed all ties and moved away. It was easier for everyone. I can go to my chemo sessions in peace and they can go on with their lives. If it magically goes away, then I'll possibly go back. If I die, they'll never even know. Win, win!

Besides, who knows maybe Bambi will finally get me!:lol:

I think situations like that are a bit different than the person who is just stressed from loosing their job or their favorite TV show got cancelled. packing it in while still healthy and coherent can be a good alternative to a long paiful death in some cases.

Tom

[Flexin]

its all perspective, to them it was worse than cancer aids and all the other badness wrapped into one. Kinda like how some people have a big emotional blow up over a little thing and others just roll with it.


Just want to throw this one out there and see what you guys have to say or think about this one. How about a schizophrenic whos off his meds (for whatever reason) and kills himself either because the voices told him too or the voices/hallucinations drove him to the edge.

Tom

I fell different about someone in that case. I know they mind can be completely messed up (you should meet some of my ex's :tremble:) and meds are needed in some of those cases.

Tigger is right that some doctors are way too quick to give meds. There are some that won't give them up at all. I feel the reason I was able to deal with being depressed as a teen was because I changed the way I looked at life. And I was at the point where I thought I wanted to die. I thought about it a lot at one point. I laid on the couch as a teen talking about my problems and saying that I wasn't thinking about hurting myself. Which was a lie.

As a young child I would get these weird thoughts. One was when I was in a cab. It was like a voice inside was saying "what would happen if you just reached up and started to choke the cab driver while he was driving. Or I would be standing by someone and wondered what would happen if I just hit that person as hard as I can, what would happen. It was like something inside me was trying to get me to do this. It was a fucked up feeling. I would get it out of no where. I never did any of those things.

A couple of weeks ago I had that same feeling again. The first time in maybe 18 years I would guess. Maybe more. It even happen the other day. Its weird that it happens because I'm not like that.

Coles notes version.

Some can't control their mind and they go crazy. Thats different.

Giving up because life is too hard IS weak.

James

[tommymac]

There seems to be different trains of thought as far as treating depression and anxiety. Some are very quick to give meds where as others believe therapy is more than adequate. Now its almost in style to be on psych meds, kinda like how all hyper kids have adhd and are given rittalin like its candy. I think the challenge is finding the right doc to make a person better.

Tom

[Flexin]

There seems to be different trains of thought as far as treating depression and anxiety. Some are very quick to give meds where as others believe therapy is more than adequate. Now its almost in style to be on psych meds, kinda like how all hyper kids have adhd and are given rittalin like its candy. I think the challenge is finding the right doc to make a person better.

Tom

I agree. I think the first thing that should be done is testing to make sure something else isn't causing the problem. Then they should try to treat them with other methods first. For some meds might be the only option.

Giving me pain killers after my car accident would or should (they didn't and I tried 3 or 4 different types) ease the pain. But in the end they wouldn't get rid of it. Now using them to ease the pain so I can work out can strenghting my body to fix the problem is different. But for me they didn't ease it enough (or at all) to make it worth taking them.

In the end the gym eased my back pain. I still have pain every now and then but getting my ass back to working out will help that a lot. And I know it will improve my mood as well so I should get on that right away.

James

[Amber Lamps]

Exactly! The problem isn't solved by covering it up. That would be like throwing a paper towel on the floor every time the dog takes a shit. Sooner or later you have to either clean it up or move on. I really don't know about shrinks guys. How many people do you figure that kill themselves were on something and/or were being seen by a psychiatrist? What percentage? 20%, 30%, 75% maybe? It's the only type of doctor that is never expected to "cure" his patient. People will be on meds or in therapy for their entire lives and it's "okay"...wtf?:idk:

[tommymac]

I agree. I think the first thing that should be done is testing to make sure something else isn't causing the problem. Then they should try to treat them with other methods first. For some meds might be the only option.

Giving me pain killers after my car accident would or should (they didn't and I tried 3 or 4 different types) ease the pain. But in the end they wouldn't get rid of it. Now using them to ease the pain so I can work out can strenghting my body to fix the problem is different. But for me they didn't ease it enough (or at all) to make it worth taking them.

In the end the gym eased my back pain. I still have pain every now and then but getting my ass back to working out will help that a lot. And I know it will improve my mood as well so I should get on that right away.

James

Sometimes the problem is there isnt any testing that could be done. Any decent psychiatrist Will usualy do routine screening tests to rule out any metabolic cause (electrolye imbalance, thyroid disease etc...)


Then the hard part is treating them or at least finding the treatment that helps, for some its easy to throw a script at them and say see me in 3 months as opposed to psychotherpay whic requires more time and effort on the practicioners part

[tommymac]

Exactly! The problem isn't solved by covering it up. That would be like throwing a paper towel on the floor every time the dog takes a shit. Sooner or later you have to either clean it up or move on. I really don't know about shrinks guys. How many people do you figure that kill themselves were on something and/or were being seen by a psychiatrist? What percentage? 20%, 30%, 75% maybe? It's the only type of doctor that is never expected to "cure" his patient. People will be on meds or in therapy for their entire lives and it's "okay"...wtf?:idk:

look at high blood pressure or diabeties, they usualy are on meds for their entire lives because there is no cure for the problem.

Tom

[Amber Lamps]

Sometimes the problem is there isnt any testing that could be done. Any decent psychiatrist Will usualy do routine screening tests to rule out any metabolic cause (electrolye imbalance, thyroid disease etc...)


Then the hard part is treating them or at least finding the treatment that helps, for some its easy to throw a script at them and say see me in 3 months as opposed to psychotherpay whic requires more time and effort on the practicioners part

yea and who has time for that shit? We got tee times to make! I'm can't say this is all of them but my ex's shrink was next to impossible to get a hold of and he had very short office hours, like maybe 20 per week.

[Flexin]

Sometimes the problem is there isnt any testing that could be done. Any decent psychiatrist Will usualy do routine screening tests to rule out any metabolic cause (electrolye imbalance, thyroid disease etc...)


Then the hard part is treating them or at least finding the treatment that helps, for some its easy to throw a script at them and say see me in 3 months as opposed to psychotherpay whic requires more time and effort on the practicioners part

Yeah I know what you mean.

James

[tommymac]

yea and who has time for that shit? We got tee times to make! I'm can't say this is all of them but my ex's shrink was next to impossible to get a hold of and he had very short office hours, like maybe 20 per week.

Whats tough is for psychotherapy you usualy have 50 minute sessions so you can only see 8 or 9 people topps in a day. Where as a doc who doles out meds can see 3-5 pts an hr and bill each one for the visit.

Tom

[Amber Lamps]

look at high blood pressure or diabeties, they usualy are on meds for their entire lives because there is no cure for the problem.

Tom

Hmm yea but those are physical ailments. They don't give the patient drugs to make them "forget about the problem" now do they?:lol:

Besides, I thought that if you eat Cherrios your blood pressure problems go away?:lol:

[Flexin]

One of my favorite sayings when I was a teen was "Right medication, wrong dosage." Did I mention I had some crazy ass girlfriends?

James

[Amber Lamps]

One of my favorite sayings when I was a teen was "Right medication, wrong dosage." Did I mention I had some crazy ass girlfriends?

James

Bro, we must have been dating cousins or something! I dated 5 girls in a row that were on some mood altering drug! It's ridiculous! In most cases they were put on it as teenagers because they were "acting crazy"... I thought they called that puberty?:lol: These parents don't want to deal with it or don't have the time. These doctors throw them on something and get them out of their office. The girl gets to be a drug addict her entire life... Whoopee!

Some of these chicks are non-marriageable! No man can deal with them! I saw an old ex that had parents that put her on ritalin and she later graduated to prozac/paxil/lexapro/etc. She's been married 4 times and she's never had kids. I'm no doctor but most of the chicks that are in this situation, that I know of, don't have kids. I wonder if that has something to do with the drugs?:idk:

[tommymac]

Hmm yea but those are physical ailments. They don't give the patient drugs to make them "forget about the problem" now do they?:lol:

Besides, I thought that if you eat Cherrios your blood pressure problems go away?:lol:

Some psych problems are physical too. They could be cause by over or underproduction of certain neurotransmitters, its just that they manifest by a person acting crazy so to speak.

Tom

[Amber Lamps]

Some psych problems are physical too. They could be cause by over or underproduction of certain neurotransmitters, its just that they manifest by a person acting crazy so to speak.

Tom

Okay, then why can't there be a definitive test for it then? Why isn't there a test for chemical imbalances?:idk:

[tommymac]

Okay, then why can't there be a definitive test for it then? Why isn't there a test for chemical imbalances?:idk:

good question. the substanses in question are in trace amounts and are secreted by nerve cells to allow an impulse to travel to the next nerve cell so theyre kinda hard to test for. If a medication works then it can tell you that you may be producing too much or too little of a certain compound.

And thats neurobiology crunched into a small paragraph. This is still on eof the final fronteirs of research since theyre still not sure how a person thinks, how we learn, or remember. there is some that is known about certain psych disorders so its a start.

Tom

[cbrchick]

Having taken care of hundreds of depressed patients... Having revived failed suicide attempts, having patients admitted for suicidal thoughts, lame over doses, having lots friends commit suicide....

I have to say I reserve my judgment and compassion on a case basis.

I don't think all suicides are the "easy" was out depending on what a person was going through prior to the successful act. Even though I "think" I know or knew what they were going through, I really have no idea. I can only assume.

A lot of people suffer in silence. And, for those I know that have committed suicide, they got their shit in order and did it in complete, non-messy ways.

And the aftermath on their family, friends does suck. But these people were lovely, kind, considerate, wonderful people. And to hurt that much that you'd take your own life - perhaps thinking it's better for everyone, well.... I don't know how that is "easy".

I've been unhappy at time in my life. I think I suffered from mild depressive moments for a few months at a time, but I could always function. Perhaps we all have. Even though I felt despair, I could reason my way out of those situations. I've always had a great life, but it's impressive how your emotions and feelings can take over. And when you hurt, you hurt. Some people hurt more than others, and I guess they can't see their way out.

I dunno. Suicide is an awful thing no matter how we try to justify it.

Too many unanswered questions with an all to final ending.

Kirsty

[Fleck750]

^^^^^^ Well said.

I wasn't talking about the "woe is me, I don't know what to do" people, I was talking more of the mentally unbalanced. Those are the ones that need compassion.

If it comes down to it, I have my plan, it won't be messy, and everyone will be taken care of.

[the chi]

So what meds are you on, if any, and do you see a therapist? If the answer is no to both of these, then your life must be miserable.

But wait. You're planning a wonderful wedding with the man of your dreams. So the depression must be manageable and accepted by your intended.

Not being a bitch, just asking what your level of tolerance is. Some people feel bad enough to end their lives, others get help or just live with it.

To answer your question, I've been on several, including ones that they now know are a leading cause of suicides in people.

I have seen therapists, a few times, I ended that when they told me I needed to "find my inner child" and a few other choice phrases they like to use.

I've been told by a husband that its "all in my head" as well.

I firmly beleive that I dont need to be medicated or see someone tell me nothing about anything to deal with my depression.

I dont have a problem with people using medication or seeing a therapist for their problems, but I am very much a "suckit up and deal" kind of person. There have been times in my life I didnt think Id make it through another hour, let alone a day, and yet despite my depression I have neven given in to my weaker impulses killed myself or really tried it. (Note I didnt say I hadnt thought about it.)

I refuse to allow my depression to rule my life or interfere. Sounds crazy, and I am, but I know when I am getting an onset, and I take steps that work for me to get through life.

Not everyone can do it, I understand that, and I hold nothing against anyone who does what they need to do. But giving in, being too weak to deal, IMO only is not the answer.


Don't get me wrong Fleck, in most cases, I think suicide is only the answer, because you're asking the wrong question.

Yes, the world is indeed a crappy place. Things don't always go as planned, and people aren't as happy as they would like to be.

If living well is the best revenge, then living at all is a close second. Remember this, you can be just as poor at the beach, as you can in KC...

JC

This is a great, worth quoting.

^^^^^^ Well said.

I wasn't talking about the "woe is me, I don't know what to do" people, I was talking more of the mentally unbalanced. Those are the ones that need compassion.

If it comes down to it, I have my plan, it won't be messy, and everyone will be taken care of.


Medical cases like undeniable mental "crazy" is not the same as depression. At all.

And your "plan" isnt going to make those you leave behind any less sad, angry or bereaved.

Killing oneself is a selfish form of getting away. Not being mean Fleck, just stating how I see it.

[Papa_Complex]

If it comes down to it, I have my plan, it won't be messy, and everyone will be taken care of.

So do I. I call it "natural causes and a will."

[Fleck750]

I stay up nights because I know that the sooner I fall asleep, the sooner I'll wake up to yet another day I have no interest or desire to face. For many, depression (and the suicidal thoughts that accompany it) isn't a matter of choice.

Describes most of my days.

[EpyonXero]

I just don't understand how our ancestors managed considering that they faced far greater challenges and hardships than we do without being on drugs.

I had a longer response to this but then my browser crashed so heres the short version:

I think its hard to become depressed when youre spending all of your energy simply surviving. When you hunt and farm to keep yourself and your village alive you know that youre needed and you sleep when you can and wake up early because you feel that your work is important.

Now-a-days, most people dont feel their work has any meaning and that their lives arent important. Because they dont have to think about daily survival they are able to think about how much their lives suck and become depressed. Staying alive is easy here and I think we take it for granted. When it takes a lot of work I think you appreciate it more.

[Amber Lamps]

I had a longer response to this but then my browser crashed so heres the short version:

I think its hard to become depressed when youre spending all of your energy simply surviving. When you hunt and farm to keep yourself and your village alive you know that youre needed and you sleep when you can and wake up early because you feel that your work is important.

Now-a-days, most people dont feel their work has any meaning and that their lives arent important. Because they dont have to think about daily survival they are able to think about how much their lives suck and become depressed. Staying alive is easy here and I think we take it for granted. When it takes a lot of work I think you appreciate it more.

I agree with that for the most part. Our lives are basically empty now...:sorry: I think I have to disagree with you on one point, if someone dragged ass (as my Dad would call it), people didn't coddle them, make excuses for their behavior, etc. They put a boot in their ass and made them "snap out of it". People didn't put up with whining back in the day. Someone posted that happiness is a matter of brain chemistry, I disagree, happiness is at least partially, matter of choice IMHO. That's why people that live in trailers laugh and smile. While people living in mansions commit suicide if their fortune goes from 100,000,000 to 50,000,000. It's choice. You can either accept your circumstances, smile and make the best of it or you can focus on whatever the negatives are, wallow in those, cry about it and do nothing to fix it. I'm no Scientologist but I do believe that you can alter your perception of the world through positive thinking!

[Flexin]

I agree with that for the most part. Our lives are basically empty now...:sorry: I think I have to disagree with you on one point, if someone dragged ass (as my Dad would call it), people didn't coddle them, make excuses for their behavior, etc. They put a boot in their ass and made them "snap out of it". People didn't put up with whining back in the day. Someone posted that happiness is a matter of brain chemistry, I disagree, happiness is at least partially, matter of choice IMHO. That's why people that live in trailers laugh and smile. While people living in mansions commit suicide if their fortune goes from 100,000,000 to 50,000,000. It's choice. You can either accept your circumstances, smile and make the best of it or you can focus on whatever the negatives are, wallow in those, cry about it and do nothing to fix it. I'm no Scientologist but I do believe that you can alter your perception of the world through positive thinking!

I agree and this is what I was going to ask Triple and Fleck750.

Why are you unhappy?

Right now I'm not as happy has I have been. Not happy with what I'm doing right now.

About 4 years ago I had anxiety attacks because I was unhappy with where I worked and with the fact that I was working for someone else. The fact that I made good money made it worse because I wanted to leave but I felt trapped because of the money.

After being off on stress leave I had to find things to do that made me happy. I tried riding my R6 one day and that wasn't good. I was so stressed that I was losing sleep. Being tired caused problems with my balance and thats a bad thing on a bike.

FUCK!!! They just said that boxer Arturo Gatti was found dead. Fuck.

Well to shorting my story which I almost forget now. I had to park my bike for a bit because of this. That pissed me off. What made me happy was spending time with my brother. We started going to an indoor rock climbing gym. Then we joined a boxing club. Thats where my av picture was taking. Boxing really helped my stress and I started riding my bike to the gym. I even took my brother to the gym once on the bike.

One other thing I did was I left my job after being off for a year. I was making the money i wanted to make pretty much but wasn't happy with how I was doing it.

I had more I wanted to say but hearing about Arturo caused me to lose my train of thought.

The coles notes version of what I wanted to say is, find out what is making you unhappy and find a way to change it.

I heard a quote somewhere before that says "Life is what you make it."

James

[Flexin]

I agree. Also why I'm about *this* far from quitting my job, divorcing the wife, letting the debt collectors come repossess all my shit, and hitting the Appalachian Trail for the next six or 12 or however many months.



No path or purpose? Don't really know, actually.

Thats the thing. You just need to thing really hard about what you want in life. Then from there you have to decide how you can get there.

I need to make some big decisions about what I want to do right now myself. There are more then a few things I want in life right now. I need to think about what path I want to take to get there. Not on of them is 100% perfect but I need to figure out which one works best for me and my family. The main thing in the end is that I'm happy.

James