clutch started slipping today

['73 H1 Triple]

'93 Kawasaki ZR1100 with 24.5K. Oil & filter just changed Friday. Oil and filter has been changed every 3K for the life of the bike ( The first two owners are friends of mine )

The past week, sometimes my takeoffs weren't smooth as the clutch seemed grabby. I siphoned the fluid out of the clutch master cylinder and replaced it with new DOT 4 fluid.

I changed the oil & filter on Friday with Honda brand oil in 20W-50. This was the third change using this oil.

Yesterday, everything was fine. ( 18 miles each way ) Today, a few miles from the house as I was accelerating up a hill, the rpms "jumped" in 4th gear from 4K to 5K so I reduced throttle and rode easier to work.

After work I stopped in town to fill up and when I went to take off from the light, I let out the clutch lever and NOTHING HAPPENED . I was pushing while sitting when it stared moving. I had four miles to get home and it was "interesting" to say the least. Irregular takeoffs and it slipped whenever it wanted.

I did make it home and now it's out to the garage to see what's going on.

Any ideas other than the clutch is fubar?

Jeff

[Particle Man]

think maybe the shift dogs are worn a bit?

[Amber Lamps]

Have you been using Honda oil WITH Moly? That's a no no with some wet clutch bikes!

[JoshuaTree]

Clutch cable in proper adjustment / actuation range? Checked the old oil for particulate / metal flakes (i.e. destroying clutch plates / steel)?

To save you some time...

Barnett Performance (http://www.barnettclutches.com/products/clutch_plates_springs.aspx?type=clutches_other&clutch_make=Kawasaki&clutch_cc=1100)

[Amber Lamps]

Almost forgot. you changed the fluid, are you sure you didn't get any bubbles/air? No offense but are you sure that Dot4 is the correct fluid? I still wonder if you "accidentally" got the Honda oil with Moly...you wouldn't be the first guy to do it!

['73 H1 Triple]

think maybe the shift dogs are worn a bit?
It seemed to shift fine. This is more of a sudden problem.

Have you been using Honda oil WITH Moly? That's a no no with some wet clutch bikes!
Honda Pro GN-4 Changed at 19K with 20w-50, at 22k with 10w-40 and now at 24.5K with 20w-50.

I still have all the old containers and it says nothing about moly on the label.


Clutch cable in proper adjustment / actuation range? Checked the old oil for particulate / metal flakes (i.e. destroying clutch plates / steel)?

To save you some time...

Barnett Performance (http://www.barnettclutches.com/products/clutch_plates_springs.aspx?type=clutches_other&clutch_make=Kawasaki&clutch_cc=1100)

Thanks for the Barnett link. That will probably be what I purchase if it is the clutch itself.

No noticable "extras" in the oil and nothing in the bottom of the drain pan.

No clutch cable as it's hydraulic. I need to check range of motion. It did feel different before I pulled the cover off the left side. Maybe I'll put it back on and recheck and maybe bleed some fluid thru before I disassemble the clutch.

Thanks :cheers:

['73 H1 Triple]

Almost forgot. you changed the fluid, are you sure you didn't get any bubbles/air? No offense but are you sure that Dot4 is the correct fluid? I still wonder if you "accidentally" got the Honda oil with Moly...you wouldn't be the first guy to do it!

I have a big siphon that I used to pull the fluid out of the reservoir. I did not touch the clutch lever until I refilled it.

I'm positive it's DOT 4 as it is cast into the cover for both the brakes and the clutch. ( but thanks for asking )

[Amber Lamps]

I have a big siphon that I used to pull the fluid out of the reservoir. I did not touch the clutch lever until I refilled it.

I'm positive it's DOT 4 as it is cast into the cover for both the brakes and the clutch. ( but thanks for asking )


Hey just a thought... it's the suddenness of it that puzzles me, besides I always had the clutch give me grief in the higher gears first before it went out completely. :idk: It just seems that it has to be something to do with the fluid or the oil, you know? If you used synthetic or oil with friction modifiers in the last change, it would take a while to affect the clutch, so that made sense to me.:idk: Oh well, good luck bro! You can try bleeding the clutch system just in case.... it definitely takes less time than taking it apart.

[pauldun170]

It seemed to shift fine. This is more of a sudden problem.


Honda Pro GN-4 Changed at 19K with 20w-50, at 22k with 10w-40 and now at 24.5K with 20w-50.

I still have all the old containers and it says nothing about moly on the label.




Thanks for the Barnett link. That will probably be what I purchase if it is the clutch itself.

No noticable "extras" in the oil and nothing in the bottom of the drain pan.

No clutch cable as it's hydraulic. I need to check range of motion. It did feel different before I pulled the cover off the left side. Maybe I'll put it back on and recheck and maybe bleed some fluid thru before I disassemble the clutch.

Thanks :cheers:

When was the last time you replaced the springs?

[Amber Lamps]

When was the last time you replaced the springs?

Hey that's a thought, maybe you had a spring break? hell, or the clutch basket, a plate, etc... hmmm....

['73 H1 Triple]

When was the last time you replaced the springs?

Hey that's a thought, maybe you had a spring break? hell, or the clutch basket, a plate, etc... hmmm....

They are OEM springs.

I was just reading on the ZRXoa forum and somebody had a similar problem that was the clutch actuator. He was able to look at the clutch plates move thru the oil fill.

I'm back to the garage :dthumb:

[pauldun170]

They are OEM springs.

I was just reading on the ZRXoa forum and somebody had a similar problem that was the clutch actuator. He was able to look at the clutch plates move thru the oil fill.

I'm back to the garage :dthumb:

If they are the original springs you may want replace em if you are going to be in there and it turns out the you need to the replace clutch

General rule I follow
Aftermarket springs
OEM plates

My clutch started to go at about 25K but I nipped it in the butt at the first sign of slippage

[BobTheBiker]

Kawi is notorious for using crappy springs, replace em with stiffer springs and service the actuator mechanism. is likely that your actuator isn working rght.

['73 H1 Triple]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. :beers:

I messed with it some more and do believe it's the actuator as it just doesn't feel right.

I found an actuator on ebay which I purchased. The seller is in NY, I hope he ships quickly.

Jeff

[Gas Man]

I'm betting on the hydrolic side of the clutch actuator. Either the fluid, air, or the hydrolic just took a shit. I doubt its the clutch pack itself. But that would be easy to check... pull the plates and measure thickness to spec.

[Fleck750]

Are the fiber plates OEM? If so, replace. Being that it's 16 yrs old, you may be right on the actuator and springs.

[No Worries]

If the actuator is the slave cylinder, I think that is the problem.

['73 H1 Triple]

If the actuator is the slave cylinder, I think that is the problem.

The hydraulic device that pushes on the rod to work the clutch.

I'll see if the kawa dealer close to work has the seal on friday. If so I'll grab one and see if I can get it working.

One day and I'm having two wheel withdrawl :td:

['73 H1 Triple]

Got my clutch actuator yesterday (ebay) and although it worked just fine, I still had slippage.

Just pulled the clutch cover off, removed the six springs and the outer clutch hub and heard "CLINK" in the oil drain pan.

Turns out the the leaf spring in the hub was in three pieces.
https://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/kawasaki-motorcycle-zr1100-zr1100a2-us-1993-clutch/o/m4673sch59264
item#39130

Now I have to find a 36mm socket to remove the nut to check if I have to purchase any other parts.

At least it wasn't total catastrophic failure :dthumb:

Jeff

['73 H1 Triple]

Here's what broke, the leaf spring that holds the inner clutch hub.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/ZR1100/DCP_4350.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/ZR1100/DCP_4351.jpg

If the spring was there, it would be behind the aluminum colored nut holding the inner clutch hub back.

I ordered my $10 leaf spring from BikeBandit.com since the dealer isn't open until tuesday. I also got a discount for being an AMA member :dthumb:

Jeff

[JoshuaTree]

Have you measured the clutch stack yet to see if its still within use limits?

['73 H1 Triple]

Have you measured the clutch stack yet to see if its still within use limits?

:yes: It must have had an easy life as it's still almost at full thickness.

[JoshuaTree]

:yes: It must have had an easy life as it's still almost at full thickness.

You can fix that... :rofl:

['73 H1 Triple]

You can fix that... :rofl:

It goes really well but the handling just isn't there for "balls to the wall" beating.

I did order a new set of clutch springs too. They were just too close to the bottom service limit.

['73 H1 Triple]

Ah, the joys of owning a cycle that was one year only in the US :td:

BikeBandit cancelled my order since the spring is discontinued by kawasaki.
I checked on the kawasaki website and it says See Dealer's Substitute Parts List :gofurslf:

Off to the dealer tomorrow after work

[BobTheBiker]

Ah, the joys of owning a cycle that was one year only in the US :td:

BikeBandit cancelled my order since the spring is discontinued by kawasaki.
I checked on the kawasaki website and it says See Dealer's Substitute Parts List :gofurslf:

Off to the dealer tomorrow after work
Dont go OEM on springs. kawi factory springs suck ass. an aftermarket brand is better.

['73 H1 Triple]

Dont go OEM on springs. kawi factory springs suck ass. an aftermarket brand is better.

I've heard that from many people. I ordered a set of EBC CSK Clutch Spring Set from Dennis Kirk. Scheduled delivery is tomorrow.

The dealer had the "new" springs in stock and also the nut. $25 out the door.

Montgomeryville Cycle Center gives a 10% discount for being an AMA member :cool:

Jeff

['73 H1 Triple]

It's all back together and working better than when I bought it. :rockwoot:

The clutch now grabs closer to the bars so I need to learn to take off again :willy: ( almost stalled in the driveway twice :leaving: )


Life is good
Jeff

[Gas Man]

Awesome!!

['73 H1 Triple]

It works perfectly and it took me half way to work to get used to the new feel of the clutch.

So nice to be on two wheels again :rockwoot: