Could legal marijuana save California’s economy?

[zed]

The Audacity of Dope
Could legal marijuana save California’s economy?
By Jeff Segal
Posted Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:36am

Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps has made marijuana a popular topic. He was photographed smoking from a bong, lost corporate sponsorships, and was suspended from the sport as a result. But celebrities aren't the only ones thinking about dope.

Some legislators in California have pot on their minds, too. That's because the government of the biggest economy in the United States is facing a massive budget deficit whose pain would be alleviated by decriminalizing marijuana.

California's current deficit stands at a whopping $15 billion and is expected to reach $42 billion next year. And the state run by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has virtually run out of cash. It recently delayed $3.5 billion of payments to taxpayers and counties.

While nearly all U.S. states currently face budget shortfalls, California's deficit is more than one-third of its general fund. That's largely due to its dependence on income taxes, which slide during a recession. And the state can't easily borrow due to the government bond-market freeze. Moody's even warned it may downgrade the state's rating.

There's no easy fix to the problem, as any solution likely requires cutting benefits and social services—tough political choices for Schwarzenegger. But the state does have an abundant natural resource it may be able to draw on for help.

Marijuana is California's largest cash crop. It's valued at $14 billion annually, or nearly twice the value of the state's grape and vegetable crops combined, according to government statistics. Indeed, a recent report pegged marijuana as two-thirds of the economy of Mendocino County, a ganja hotbed north of San Francisco. That's not surprising—it costs $400 to grow a pound of pot that can sell for $6,000 on the street.

But the state doesn't receive any revenue from its cash cow. Instead, it spends billions of dollars enforcing laws pegged at shutting down the industry and inhibiting marijuana's adherents. Of course, there's a reason for that. Marijuana's social costs may include addiction and rehabilitation treatment and lost productivity. Yet these are minute compared with the extensive social costs of alcohol or tobacco.

Of course, just legalizing pot wouldn't automatically harvest revenues for the state. An organized system of regulating sales and collecting taxes would need implementing. And it's possible that general drug use could rise, though the debate that pot is a gateway drug to harder substances is inconclusive.

There's also the question of whether or not taxing marijuana would simply create a black market that would again skimp the state on taxes. The best corollaries here are cigarettes and alcohol. Rises in "sin taxes" on them have decreased consumption—a positive—but don't seem to have destabilized the legal market. Decriminalization could lead to some job losses in law enforcement, though the countervailing argument would see these forces put to work stopping harder crime.

So what are the numbers? A national legalization effort would save nearly $13 billion annually in enforcement costs and bring in $7 billion in yearly tax revenues, according to a study by Harvard University economist Jeffrey Miron. Since California represents 13 percent of the U.S. economy, those numbers suggest the state could save $1.7 billion in enforcement costs and nab up to $1 billion in revenues. That doesn't include any indirect revenues as, for example, rural farming communities grow or marijuana tourism, which has been lucrative for the Netherlands, takes off.

Put it all together, and California could potentially wipe some $3 billion off its budget deficit by letting its people puff and pay. That still leaves it with a gaping $39 billion hole to fill, so the state's problems go far beyond what a new cash crop can fix. But anything to help soothe the state's chronic fiscal pain—even if unpalatable to some—is worth considering.

* Jeff Segal is the West Coast reporter for breakingviews.com.

$6K for a $400 investment. that's a hell of a ROI

[tached1000rr]

I think they should, Lays, Ruffles and Cheetos sales will be at an all time high.

[zed]

I think they should, Lays, Ruffles and Cheetos sales will be at an all time high.

time to buy stock in Lays. LOL

[Fleck750]

They can't legalize it. It's to far to drive to a decent Taco Bell. :D

[Dragonpaco]

if they can do it then awesomeness will sweep the country.

[Fleck750]

I'll take stoners over crackheads any day.

[tached1000rr]

People are gonna buy it anyway, might as well make some money off of it as a state and create some jobs. Now for hire: Marijuana Commissioner, Marijuana inspector, Marijuana sales consultant and clerks.

[Fleck750]

I could take a second job as a pin joint roller. :p

[zed]

People are gonna buy it anyway, might as well make some money off of it as a state and create some jobs. Now for hire: Marijuana Commissioner, Marijuana inspector, Marijuana sales consultant and clerks.

and a Marijuana Czar.

[Tsunami]

I could be hugely mistaken but I thought their medical marijuana was legal and all you have to do is pay a doctor to get a medical card, and bam, you can buy all the pot you want. Whats the point of legalizing it when everyone is getting it at the corner med marijuana store anyway?

[EpyonXero]

Its not going to happen.

[Particle Man]

Its not going to happen.

Nope.

Which amazes me because cigarettes are still legal...

[Lucky3623]

Nope.

Which amazes me because cigarettes are still legal...


They have been trying really hard to pass it this time... I seriously doubt it will get passed. It would be a very profitable move on thier part though.

[Homeslice]

I know one thing, it would save Cali's park system & national forests from being stolen by illegal immigrants who squat on the land and grow pot and shoot at anyone who discovers them. The Forest Service doesn't have enough manpower to kick these people out.

[Amber Lamps]

I'll take stoners over crackheads any day.

I'll take stoners over drunks any day!!!

[karl_1052]

If you want weed, move to British Columbia.

That is weed!

[askmrjesus]

If you want weed, move to British Columbia.

That is weed!

Meh.

I'll put Humboldt County's finest, up against your beaver den weed, any day of the week.

USA! USA! USA!

JC

[Kaneman]

Well I really hope they won't, it is their obligation as a state to protect Americans from themselves. It has been a well known fact since the 30's that Marijuana is an extremely dangerous mind-altering drug that turns hard-working honest men into murdering rapist lunatics and causes innocent women to become rampant cock-sucking sluts.

As if that weren't bad enough EVERYONE knows Marijuana is a gateway drug. Ask any crackhead, heroin addict or speed freak what the #1 reason they've completely thrown their life away in favor of hardcore narcotics and they will tell you, its that goddamn marijuana! Victimless crime? MY ASS!

Sweet Jesus, have the people behind these legalization initiatives even bothered to THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN?!?!?!?!?!

It should be illegal to even have a thread like this.
________
Kid wellbutrin (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/wellbutrin/)

[Smittie61984]

I feel it should be legal but I seriously doubt that legalizing marijuana is going to be California's savior.

They'd do more good by not punishing every business that comes into the state with ridiculous regulations and taxes. Also, I'm not sure if California has an income tax or not but if they do, they could do wonders dropping that and going to a consumption tax. Think of all the illegal aliens not paying taxes now who would be then. Also get rid of those over the top emmision bs.

Besides how much of a "carbon footprint" are the stoners going to leave as they burn weed and put greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. I thought California cared about the enviroment.

[Lucky3623]

Besides how much of a "carbon footprint" are the stoners going to leave as they burn weed and put greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. I thought California cared about the enviroment.

I strongly doubt it would be worse than people who smoke cigerettes or crack for that matter... The "green"house gasses made me laugh though...
And apparently you have never been to LA... :)

[shmike]

and a Marijuana Czar.

Too hard to say while stoned.

[Particle Man]

causes innocent women to become rampant cock-sucking sluts.


Fuck, if they legalize it I'll have to move to CA.

:boobs:


:lol

[Rider]

Smoke if you got em. :drewpy:

[Amber Lamps]

I feel it should be legal but I seriously doubt that legalizing marijuana is going to be California's savior.

They'd do more good by not punishing every business that comes into the state with ridiculous regulations and taxes. Also, I'm not sure if California has an income tax or not but if they do, they could do wonders dropping that and going to a consumption tax. Think of all the illegal aliens not paying taxes now who would be then. Also get rid of those over the top emmision bs.

Besides how much of a "carbon footprint" are the stoners going to leave as they burn weed and put greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. I thought California cared about the enviroment.

I agree with the consumption tax and there should be 20% tax on wire transfers to other countries!:pat:

[karl_1052]

It has been a well known fact since the 30's that Marijuana is an extremely dangerous mind-altering drug that turns innocent women to become rampant cock-sucking sluts.

That is all I needed to know.

LEGALIZE IT!

[Smittie61984]

I agree with the consumption tax and there should be 20% tax on wire transfers to other countries!:pat:

Yeah, instead it's the other way around right? I think for someone to bring money into this country (or a business atleast) it's a 30% tax plus penalties and such. Gee I'm sure businesses are just excited to bring the trillions of dollars overseas back home knowing they'll loose probalby half of it when it's all said and done.

[zed]

Well I really hope they won't, it is their obligation as a state to protect Americans from themselves. It has been a well known fact since the 30's that Marijuana is an extremely dangerous mind-altering drug that turns hard-working honest men into murdering rapist lunatics and causes innocent women to become rampant cock-sucking sluts.

As if that weren't bad enough EVERYONE knows Marijuana is a gateway drug. Ask any crackhead, heroin addict or speed freak what the #1 reason they've completely thrown their life away in favor of hardcore narcotics and they will tell you, its that goddamn marijuana! Victimless crime? MY ASS!

Sweet Jesus, have the people behind these legalization initiatives even bothered to THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN?!?!?!?!?!

It should be illegal to even have a thread like this.

I generally agree with your sarcastic way of putting it. I know it was a gateway drug for my son. it was not for others I know or for some reason they just never moved on to other drugs and some have quit without going back. one guy I know lost a very good paying job because he pissed hot. he found another that does regular testing, he had already said that after smoking it for 30+ years he was done so the new jobs testing policy won't bother him, now, his son-in-law is the opposite. he'd rather sit in the basement getting high. his daughter is about to go to school so his wife is pregnant again so he won't have to go find a job.

[Amber Lamps]

I generally agree with your sarcastic way of putting it. I know it was a gateway drug for my son. it was not for others I know or for some reason they just never moved on to other drugs and some have quit without going back. one guy I know lost a very good paying job because he pissed hot. he found another that does regular testing, he had already said that after smoking it for 30+ years he was done so the new jobs testing policy won't bother him, now, his son-in-law is the opposite. he'd rather sit in the basement getting high. his daughter is about to go to school so his wife is pregnant again so he won't have to go find a job.

Now I see what you're saying but those people were bound to get hooked on something, you know? There will always be "responsible" users and those that overindulge. If you could wave your hand and make every pot leaf disappear, they'd find something else to be hooked on... Your friend that lost his job KNEW the possible outcome and did it anyway. Next he'll possibly be an alcoholic in stead. Trying to remove every bad thing from their grasp is a losing proposition. Moving everything out of a baby's reach works for a while but eventually you have to teach the child to leave shit alone. You can only protect people so much.:idk: The thing is, like prohibition, eventually the gov't just going to have to throw their hands up at try to regulate it and make some money off of it IMHO. People that want to smoke it will and people that don't won't start just because it's legal.

[Kaneman]

I generally agree with your sarcastic way of putting it. I know it was a gateway drug for my son. it was not for others I know or for some reason they just never moved on to other drugs and some have quit without going back. one guy I know lost a very good paying job because he pissed hot. he found another that does regular testing, he had already said that after smoking it for 30+ years he was done so the new jobs testing policy won't bother him, now, his son-in-law is the opposite. he'd rather sit in the basement getting high. his daughter is about to go to school so his wife is pregnant again so he won't have to go find a job.

Exactly. And thank God that the good people in the government, who only have our best interests at heart, are there to spread the hysteria and keep the laws intact that put those evil weed-doers and dealers in prison. Who needs personal responsibility when Uncle Sam is there to make the decisions for us?

If Uncle Sam could manage to actually keep it out of the country and stop people from growing it I bet heroin, cocaine and meth use would basically be non-existent since there would no longer be a gateway leading the innocent youth of America into the grasp of this narcotics.

Another factor that isn't being mentioned by these goddamn joint smoking hippies who want to legalize this evil plant is the poor bastards that run and are affiliated with drug cartels. Who's going to feed their families when marijuana is legalized and people can buy it at the local CVS or Walgreens? Has anybody bothered to think about putting these fine folks out of a job? Or the thousands or Mexican and American law enforcement officials who will no longer be getting paid to look the other way or provide protection...how are they supposed to buy new boats without this supplemental income?

I just wish they would outlaw alcohol too.... Oh wait....
________
Toyota R Transmission Specifications (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_R_transmission)

[Amber Lamps]

Personally, I think that they should do it! Also, they could grow it for other uses as well. I mean, if things don't go right they can always make it illegal again, right?

[Kaneman]

Personally, I think that they should do it! Also, they could grow it for other uses as well. I mean, if things don't go right they can always make it illegal again, right?

What other uses? Poisoning kittens and making blankets out of it to smother newborn babies with? Everyone knows that hemp/marijuana can not be used for anything other than a way for unemployed slackers to get high, continue to be a drain on the economy and graduate to becoming fully dysfunctional heroin addicts.

Rope, oil, paper and all that is just a bunch of nonsense cooked up by Marijuana addicted hippies to justify their chemically dependent need to get high and eat all the goddamn brownies at 7-11 right before I get there.
________
SHEMALES (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/36/shemale/videos/1)

[Avatard]

I generally agree with your sarcastic way of putting it. I know it was a gateway drug for my son.

ORLY?

:wtfru:

Why don't you ask him if he ever smoked a tobacco cigarette BEFORE he ever smoked a marijuana joint. I'd bet he did. Research indicates that THIS is the primary "gateway drug" in almost all cases.

Perhaps if we didn't fucking lie to kids, and tell them how harmful cannabis is (total fucking lie), they wouldn't assume it's safe to move on to other things. Lie to them about one thing, and you've effectively cried wolf, and lost all credibility.

[Kaneman]

ORLY?

:wtfru:

Why don't you ask him if he ever smoked a tobacco cigarette BEFORE he ever smoked a marijuana joint. I'd bet he did. Research indicates that THIS is the primary "gateway drug" in almost all cases.

Perhaps if we didn't fucking lie to kids, and tell them how harmful cannabis is (total fucking lie), they wouldn't assume it's safe to move on to other things. Lie to them about one thing, and you've effectively cried wolf, and lost all credibility.

No, "Avatard" if that's even your real fucking name, you're wrong as usual.

Hiding truths from the American population, and especially the children, has worked for over 200 years and is obviously the only way. You obviously don't give a shit about the children and want to fill their heads with ideas that smoking pot is glamourous and will make them smarter. I bet if you weren't so busy arguing on the internet you'd be out on the corner dealing pot to 3rd graders right now.

D.A.R.E. to keep kids off drugs motherfucker.

And your claim that "cannabis" (more hippie propaganda, using cute little names for such a vile plant) isn't harmful is absurd enough that I'm thinking about phoning your local police department to report you for civil disobedience. You obviously haven't seen Reefer Madness, the DEFINITIVE educational movie that shows the REAL truth of Marijuana consumption. I suggest you find a copy and watch it 10 times immediately.

TELL YOUR CHILDREN!!!
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/ReeferMadness.png
________
NEXIUM LAWSUIT INFO (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/nexium/)

[zed]

ORLY?

:wtfru:

Why don't you ask him if he ever smoked a tobacco cigarette BEFORE he ever smoked a marijuana joint. I'd bet he did. Research indicates that THIS is the primary "gateway drug" in almost all cases.

Perhaps if we didn't fucking lie to kids, and tell them how harmful cannabis is (total fucking lie), they wouldn't assume it's safe to move on to other things. Lie to them about one thing, and you've effectively cried wolf, and lost all credibility.

fuck off. I smoke cigarettes and do not smoke pot or do any drugs that are not prescribed. I know many people that are the same way as I am.

go be sanctimonious somewhere else.

[Kaneman]

fuck off. I smoke cigarettes and do not smoke pot or do any drugs that are not prescribed. I know many people that are the same way as I am.

go be sanctimonious somewhere else.

Don't worry about Avatard, he just doesn't want you hurting his thriving middle school marijuana business.
________
Big Tits Fucking (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/274/fucking/videos/1)

[zed]

What other uses? Poisoning kittens and making blankets out of it to smother newborn babies with? Everyone knows that hemp/marijuana can not be used for anything other than a way for unemployed slackers to get high, continue to be a drain on the economy and graduate to becoming fully dysfunctional heroin addicts.

Rope, oil, paper and all that is just a bunch of nonsense cooked up by Marijuana addicted hippies to justify their chemically dependent need to get high and eat all the goddamn brownies at 7-11 right before I get there.

did you become tards brother while I was gone? ;)

hemp oil has other uses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp_oil

think I read somewhere that Ford wanted to use hemp oil for fuel but oil was cheaper.

[Kaneman]

did you become tards brother while I was gone? ;)

hemp oil has other uses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp_oil

think I read somewhere that Ford wanted to use hemp oil for fuel but oil was cheaper.

Oh yea, wikipedia, there's a real reliable source. A bunch of dirty marijuana smoking hippies sitting in front of their Macbooks hitting the bong while they write articles to advance their cause of making pot easily accessible to all the children in America.

No, that's not biased at all. You don't need to be a scientist to know that oil can't be made from plants. Ace.
________
Gay vid (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/22/gay/videos/1)

[Avatard]

fuck off. I smoke cigarettes and do not smoke pot or do any drugs that are not prescribed. I know many people that are the same way as I am.

go be sanctimonious somewhere else.

Bite me. That gateway drug shit is such fucking bullshit, and you should know better.

:gofurslf:

[zed]

Oh yea, wikipedia, there's a real reliable source. A bunch of dirty marijuana smoking hippies sitting in front of their Macbooks hitting the bong while they write articles to advance their cause of making pot easily accessible to all the children in America.

No, that's not biased at all. You don't need to be a scientist to know that oil can't be made from plants. Ace.

no but it can from the seeds. I'm gonna pull a pauldun and avatard and make you prove me wrong. ;)

[Avatard]

did you become tards brother while I was gone? ;)

hemp oil has other uses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp_oil

think I read somewhere that Ford wanted to use hemp oil for fuel but oil was cheaper.

Actually, Ford wanted to use ethanol, but a little thing called ALCOHOL PROHIBITION was dreamed up in order to stop him, by the Rockefeller oil concern.

Of course, the marijuana prohibition was dreamed up by ANOTHER group of robber barons...friends of Mr. Kellogg (yes, that one), in order to protect their logging concerns. What made it "fly" was the scare tactic movie already mentioned here, teamed with the convenient racism of the time, which targeted blacks and Mexicans, who favored weed.

Of course, since then, years of government propaganda has made "Stepford bots" of people like yourself, who repeat such mindless drivel as "gateway drug" as if it were fact.

You can kiss my sanctimonious ass, fruitcake.

[zed]

Bite me. That gateway drug shit is such fucking bullshit, and you should know better.

:gofurslf:

yep, through all the rehab classes and counselors I dealt with going through that stuff with him, I know exactly that they call it a gateway drug.

:gofurslf:

[zed]

Actually, Ford wanted to use ethanol, but a little thing called ALCOHOL PROHIBITION was dreamed up in order to stop him, by the Rockefeller oil concern.

Of course, the marijuana prohibition was dreamed up by ANOTHER group of robber barons...friends of Mr. Kellogg (yes, that one), in order to protect their logging concerns. What made it "fly" was the scare tactic movie already mentioned here, teamed with the convenient racism of the time, which targeted blacks and Mexicans, who favored weed.

Of course, since then, years of government propaganda has made "Stepford bots" of people like yourself, who repeat such mindless drivel as "gateway drug" as if it were fact.

You can kiss my sanctimonious ass, fruitcake.

being racist there aren't you? stating that blacks and Mexicans favored weed.

[Avatard]

Blame it on the gateway drug. Can't possibly be bad parenting...

[Avatard]

being racist there aren't you? stating that blacks and Mexicans favored weed.

Nice misdirection, but I'm quoting from various reports of the time, including some Wikipedia references, IIRC.

[101lifts2]

Well I really hope they won't, it is their obligation as a state to protect Americans from themselves.....

Uhhh...no it isn't.

What I don't want to see is legalized pot, then have nationalized healthcare. Pot has 20 times the tar then cigarettes. Shit is nasty.

[101lifts2]

I feel it should be legal but I seriously doubt that legalizing marijuana is going to be California's savior.

They'd do more good by not punishing every business that comes into the state with ridiculous regulations and taxes. Also, I'm not sure if California has an income tax or not but if they do, they could do wonders dropping that and going to a consumption tax. Think of all the illegal aliens not paying taxes now who would be then. Also get rid of those over the top emmision bs.

Besides how much of a "carbon footprint" are the stoners going to leave as they burn weed and put greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. I thought California cared about the enviroment.

California is liberal as fuck. Just pick any issue, think the opposite of what it logically should be, then that is Cali.

There is a 10% income tax now....and they want to raise it to 12 something.

[Avatard]

Uhhh...no it isn't.

What I don't want to see is legalized pot, then have nationalized healthcare. Pot has 20 times the tar then cigarettes. Shit is nasty.

More selective data. Yes, it has more tar, but it is also a natural expectorant. It also regulates apoptosis (cell replacement, which when it goes awry, often causes cancer), and has many other well-documented anti-cancer properties.

Wanting to AGAIN vilify the "demon weed" a recent study compared three groups to see which got lung cancer the most. Compared were non-smokers, tobacco smokers, and heavy pot smokers.

Guess which group had the LEAST incidence of lung cancer?

Try informing yourself better.

[rogue]

:rofl: at Josh. You playing devil's advocate is commedic. :lol:

[OneSickPsycho]

Nice... Don't even have to read it all... the last two pages of this thread totally deliver.

To answer the topic question: Probably not... They will probably charge street prices, plus tax.. then it makes sense to just buy it off the street.

As far as the gateway drug garbage, what people try first is a matter of availability. I've never met a pot smoker who had not tried alcohol and tobacco before rippin' licks from the bong... That said, I don't go around quizzing everyone either. I can say this... back when I did drugs, I met plenty of motherfuckers who would lick a dirty ashtray if they thought there was a little coke spilled in it and even more who smoked more pot than Cheech and Chong, but never even tried any other illegal drug.

If you think logically it all pretty much makes sense. From day 1 in health class you are fed scare tactics that tobacco, alcohol, and drugs will kill you, seemingly immediately upon first use... if they don't drive you insane first.

Then all it takes is one sharp kid who questions the system, ala OSP, to say, "wait a minute, my grandpa has been drinking and smoking for like 400 years... and he's still perfectly fine..." Then the lil bastard starts realizing that like the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus, the adults are full of shit once again. Soooooooooooo... if alcohol and tobacco aren't REALLY as bad as they say, then all this other shit may not be completely terrible either...

At that point lil OSP steals a swig from the bottle of whiskey in the cabinet, stratigically repositions all the beers in the open case in the fridge to make it seem like none are missing, does similar work with individual cigarettes first... then moves on to packs within the carton. After some experimentation our boy OSP figures out that, 'hey this shit ain't at ALL what they said it was, pretty sure this other stuff isn't the great Satan either.'

Hmmm.... Now introduce marijuana... a drug that's NEARLY as readily available as alcohol and cigarettes (if you've ever been a pot smoker, you KNOW this is true). Here comes OSP's big bro with all his friends... "Yo shit stain (aka OSP), you want to hit this?" ... Why the fuck not?

The bottom line is... kids are smarter than we give them credit for, then when they figure out that we are full of shit... rather than correct the issue... we further perpetuate the bullshit and make damn certain that our kids rebel even further.

The real truth of the matter... Pot isn't bad. Lying to kids about pot, demonizing it to make it something is not, and believing everything that the government tells you... all of these most certainly are. Personally, I'd take the word of someone who's lived it, seen it, and done it over someone who read about it in a text book...

[Smittie61984]

California is liberal as fuck. Just pick any issue, think the opposite of what it logically should be, then that is Cali.

There is a 10% income tax now....and they want to raise it to 12 something.

Shit that. If I had any money and lived there I'd get the fuck out of California to a state who appreciated my money. Couldn't imagine what the corporate income tax would be out there.

I'm not a pot user (meth is where it's at) but if marijuana was legalized or the ban on marijana was repealed (however you want to state it) could a company come in and grow it to profit? I wonder this because I know people who grow marijuana and they use the seeds from other marijuana plants. What is to stop people from planting their own pot vs buying it from a company. I also wonder if all the estimates the legalize crowd throws out is estimates of what the black market makes vs a legitimate business.

Another question is if marijuana was 100% legalized in California you still have the federal ban on it. California could lose federal money and the federal government could shut these businesses down with their own policing forces. How would Cali come out ahead?

[goof2]

More selective data. Yes, it has more tar, but it is also a natural expectorant. It also regulates apoptosis (cell replacement, which when it goes awry, often causes cancer), and has many other well-documented anti-cancer properties.

Wanting to AGAIN vilify the "demon weed" a recent study compared three groups to see which got lung cancer the most. Compared were non-smokers, tobacco smokers, and heavy pot smokers.

Guess which group had the LEAST incidence of lung cancer?

Try informing yourself better.

I would be curious to see the study if you have a link.

[Rider]

Pot is not a gateway drug. I smoked more pot than cheech and chong and I never moved on to anything heavier. I did LSD once but nothing else. I was too afraid to try anything else but I loved me some grass. Of course it's been a looooong time since I was drinking 40's and puffing blunts.

[zed]

big difference of not for you and being for someone else.

I personally don't know if I care if they legalize it anyway. won't affect me in KS or MO for several years if it goes as normal.

[Fleck750]

Rope, oil, paper and all that is just a bunch of nonsense cooked up by Marijuana addicted hippies to justify their chemically dependent need to get high and eat all the goddamn brownies at 7-11 right before I get there.

:lmao:
:lmao:
:lmao:

[Amber Lamps]

Shit that. If I had any money and lived there I'd get the fuck out of California to a state who appreciated my money. Couldn't imagine what the corporate income tax would be out there.

I'm not a pot user (meth is where it's at) but if marijuana was legalized or the ban on marijana was repealed (however you want to state it) could a company come in and grow it to profit? I wonder this because I know people who grow marijuana and they use the seeds from other marijuana plants. What is to stop people from planting their own pot vs buying it from a company. I also wonder if all the estimates the legalize crowd throws out is estimates of what the black market makes vs a legitimate business.

Another question is if marijuana was 100% legalized in California you still have the federal ban on it. California could lose federal money and the federal government could shut these businesses down with their own policing forces. How would Cali come out ahead?


Grow your own vs buy it. The same could be argued about vegetables. Who doesn't know someone who grows their own? Hell, cigarette smokers could grow their own tobacco...

As far as pot farms go, there was a thriving hemp industry in this country once upon a time. Hell, when I was a kid you could find pot growing along the road in Indiana. The pro-legalization people would have you believe that it could be so again... but I'm not so sure. I know that you CAN make a lot of things out of hemp but is it easier, cheaper and/or better? That's the real question. Some genius could figure a way to make motorcycle tires out of old milk cartons but if they suck and cost 100X more $$ to make, what's the point?

I don't know about federal money but isn't marijuana still legal in Alaska? Do they have problems with the federal government over it?:idk:

[OneSickPsycho]

Grow your own vs buy it. The same could be argued about vegetables. Who doesn't know someone who grows their own? Hell, cigarette smokers could grow their own tobacco...

As far as pot farms go, there was a thriving hemp industry in this country once upon a time. Hell, when I was a kid you could find pot growing along the road in Indiana. The pro-legalization people would have you believe that it could be so again... but I'm not so sure. I know that you CAN make a lot of things out of hemp but is it easier, cheaper and/or better? That's the real question. Some genius could figure a way to make motorcycle tires out of old milk cartons but if they suck and cost 100X more $$ to make, what's the point?

I don't know about federal money but isn't marijuana still legal in Alaska? Do they have problems with the federal government over it?:idk:

Probably not, but their growing season is like 17 minutes so the odds of them even having dope is pretty small I'd imagine.

[Amber Lamps]

I would be curious to see the study if you have a link.

Yea I'd like to see a study that proves that non-smokers of anything get lung cancer more ofter than "heavy" pot smokers.

[Amber Lamps]

Probably not, but their growing season is like 17 minutes so the odds of them even having dope is pretty small I'd imagine.

Nope ya nut! They grow it in green houses and they have way longer days than we do during certain times of the year.

[askmrjesus]

Pot is not a gateway drug.

Yes it is.

Pot leads directly to carpentry, plumbing, film making, and HBO.

It starts out innocently enough. You're sitting in your living room, and the pot fairy comes by with a lid, but you don't have a pipe. What to do? Oooooh, then you see your coffee table. That would make a great pipe! So you find a drill, and turn your coffee table into a giant pipe! Yay! But wait, coffee table pipe is kinda harsh dude. You need a coffee table bong! Yay! Find some pipe, an old aquarium and some duct tape. Yay! Coffee table bong! We should film this. This is fucking awesome! Where's the Super-8 camera? I found it! Yay! Play that Led Zeppelin album while I'm smoking this kick ass Mary Jane through the coffee table aquarium bong! Dude, I am so fucked up. What's on HBO? A movie with tits in it! YAY!

JC

[OneSickPsycho]

Yes it is.

Pot leads directly to carpentry, plumbing, film making, and HBO.

It starts out innocently enough. You're sitting in your living room, and the pot fairy comes by with a lid, but you don't have a pipe. What to do? Oooooh, then you see your coffee table. That would make a great pipe! So you find a drill, and turn your coffee table into a giant pipe! Yay! But wait, coffee table pipe is kinda harsh dude. You need a coffee table bong! Yay! Find some pipe, an old aquarium and some duct tape. Yay! Coffee table bong! We should film this. This is fucking awesome! Where's the Super-8 camera? I found it! Yay! Play that Led Zeppelin album while I'm smoking this kick ass Mary Jane through the coffee table aquarium bong! Dude, I am so fucked up. What's on HBO? A movie with tits in it! YAY!

JC

Isn't that Denis Leary? I can't remember...

[Rider]

Yes it is.

Pot leads directly to carpentry, plumbing, film making, and HBO.


JC

I wont argue with Jesus on that one.

[askmrjesus]

Isn't that Denis Leary? I can't remember...

Yep.

Well, the carpentry part anyway. :lol:

JC

[Kaneman]

yep, through all the rehab classes and counselors I dealt with going through that stuff with him, I know exactly that they call it a gateway drug.

:gofurslf:

I'm glad we're on the same page Zed. If there are any truly unbiased sources who are truly educated on the real dangers of marijuana its rehab counselors who deal almost solely with those who have addictive personalities.

blacks and Mexicans favored weed.

Uh.... DUH?

Nice misdirection, but I'm quoting from various reports of the time, including some Wikipedia references, IIRC.

I think I've already covered Wikipedia. Why don't you get a real source, like the United States Government.

Uhhh...no it isn't.

What I don't want to see is legalized pot, then have nationalized healthcare. Pot has 20 times the tar then cigarettes. Shit is nasty.

I heard it was eleventy billion times as much tar as cigarettes actually.

Nice... Don't even have to read it all... the last two pages of this thread totally deliver.
blah, blah, blah, blah, puff puff, blah blah. [/IMG]

STFU HIPPIE. Its obvious to everyone here that you're stoned as cheech right the fuck now. Go up to any police officer in uniform and show him a sack of pot while trying to feed him the same bullshit you're spewing here on the forum. See if he tells you that pot isn't bad.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/hippie.jpg
________
Wendie 99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[OneSickPsycho]

I'm glad we're on the same page Zed. If there are any truly unbiased sources who are truly educated on the real dangers of marijuana its rehab counselors who deal almost solely with those who have addictive personalities.



Uh.... DUH?



I think I've already covered Wikipedia. Why don't you get a real source, like the United States Government.



I heard it was eleventy billion times as much tar as cigarettes actually.



STFU HIPPIE. Its obvious to everyone here that you're stoned as cheech right the fuck now. Go up to any police officer in uniform and show him a sack of pot while trying to feed him the same bullshit you're spewing here on the forum. See if he tells you that pot isn't bad.
[IMG]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/hippie.jpg

I'm not stoned, I'm drunk.

[Fleck750]

Yes it is.

Pot leads directly to carpentry, plumbing, film making, and HBO.



JC

So that's how Norm Abram got his start. :lol:

[Smittie61984]

I don't know about federal money but isn't marijuana still legal in Alaska? Do they have problems with the federal government over it?:idk:

The federal government would be terrified to take on Alaska, and I don't think Alaska is heavily dependent on the federal government for much of anything. They could lose their "bridge to no where" but I doubt most Alaskan citizens could really give a fuck about that. Alaska is just too seperated from the nation for the federal government to have any real policing power over it.

I do remember a kid in my speech class at school giving a presentation on legalizing marijuana. It was the funniest fucking speech I ever heard in my life. He gave out flyers on how to grow it and everything. "Ya know, like pot shoudl be legal because it can solve ALL (he said ALL) of our problems. We wouldn't have a deficit if pot was legal because it's a billion dollar industry". I wish I recorded it, because it was that funny. He had sources like "high times" and "Legalize it".

[Kaneman]

I'm not stoned, I'm drunk.

Oh, well that's ok then. My apologies.
________
What's the best vaporizer (http://vaporizer.org/reviews)

[zed]

Grow your own vs buy it. The same could be argued about vegetables. Who doesn't know someone who grows their own? Hell, cigarette smokers could grow their own tobacco...

thought the natural nicotine that was in tobacco was removed in the drying process and had to be added somewhere along the line when they made the cigarettes.

[Amber Lamps]

thought the natural nicotine that was in tobacco was removed in the drying process and had to be added somewhere along the line when they made the cigarettes.

GTFO!!! Really? Shit people really do have a right to sue the tobacco industry if that is true. They purposely put an addictive substance in cigarettes to keep you coming back! Wow! Why haven't I seen those dorks from TRUTH dancing and singing about that shit!!!:lol:

[Avatard]

I would be curious to see the study if you have a link.

http://www.seattlepi.com/health/271359_marijuana24.html

The study was commissioned by the government, so there's a lot of tap-dancing as they try to keep up a good facade on the official statements, in order to "toe the line" on the desired official stance...but if you're paying attention, the study is rather clear.

The government has studied cannabis extensively, with at least three major studies...and each time, the answer comes back "officially undesirable", in that it has repeatedly been proven to be not only completely safe, but in many ways even therapeutic, offering a number of health benefits.

It helps nerve regeneration, helps prevent the onset of Alzheimers, and fights a number of cancers, even attacking brain tumors.

Some of the many medicinal applications are listed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicinal_marijuana

[shmike]

http://www.seattlepi.com/health/271359_marijuana24.html

The study was commissioned by the government, so there's a lot of tap-dancing as they try to keep up a good facade on the official statements, in order to "toe the line" on the desired official stance...but if you're paying attention, the study is rather clear.

The government has studied cannabis extensively, with at least three major studies...and each time, the answer comes back "officially undesirable", in that it has repeatedly been proven to be not only completely safe, but in many ways even therapeutic, offering a number of health benefits.

It helps nerve regeneration, helps prevent the onset of Alzheimers, and fights a number of cancers, even attacking brain tumors.

Some of the many medicinal applications are listed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicinal_marijuana


This pretty well sums it up:

"You can't give marijuana a completely clean bill of health," said Tashkin, who is to present the study to a conference of the American Thoracic Society. "I wouldn't give any smoke substance a clean bill of health. All you can say is we haven't been able to confirm our suspicions that marijuana might be a risk factor for lung and head and neck cancer."

I don't care if you roll the healthiest plant in the world, once you burn it and inhale the smoke, said smoke it becomes a health risk.

Ingest it another way and find a more reputable test than asking 1200 cancer patients if they smoke dope, then we'll talk. ;)

[Avatard]

This pretty well sums it up:



I don't care if you roll the healthiest plant in the world, once you burn it and inhale the smoke, said smoke it becomes a health risk.

Ingest it another way and find a more reputable test than asking 1200 cancer patients if they smoke dope, then we'll talk. ;)

The technology of an improved [no smoke] delivery method already exists.

Vaporizing.

[shmike]

The technology of an improved [no smoke] delivery method already exists.

Vaporizing.

True.

The study and discussion were based on the smoking of the herb.


Tangent: I haven't ever used a vaporizor but I bought an old roomate one as a gift.

He tried it a few times and didn't seem to get the same effect.

He was back to the bong within a few days and my investment was wasted. :idk:

[Avatard]

I have one that hits nice, and even those who are "partaking" for non-medicinal uses would probably be pleased (of course, YMMV).

[the chi]

Theres always the brownie method tho right?! :lol:

[Avatard]

Sure...heat is the key, as it converts Tetrahydrocannabinol Delta 3 to Delta 9, which you can assimilate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol

Interesting point contained in that article:

Perhaps the reason there is no effective lethal dose for pot, and no one in recorded history has ever died from it, lies in the fact that you would (hypothetically) need to smoke 1500 Lbs. in 15 minutes.

Suffice to say you would die of oxygen deprivation first.

In short, it's one of the safest substances known to man...and you can still go to jail for it (millions have) simply because some logging robber barons wanted to make more money, and lied...and stupid people repeat these lies.

[thunderex]

I could be hugely mistaken but I thought their medical marijuana was legal and all you have to do is pay a doctor to get a medical card, and bam, you can buy all the pot you want. Whats the point of legalizing it when everyone is getting it at the corner med marijuana store anyway?
The med Marijuana laws here are very lax. A friend of mine just went through the "process" to pick up weed at the local dispensary. He went into a Doctor's office (a guy who specializes in this) and the Doc asked him "Are you experiencing any anxiety?" My friend said "Yes." The Doc said "Okay, you might need a prescription for medical Marijuana." My brother is a Doctor and he basically just needs to suggest that it would be helpful and then - viola - it's legal to buy. I personally don't smoke very much so it doesn't affect me. But I do think that consumption would go up if it were legalized. While it's easy enough to skirt the system, it's still more effort than picking up a pack of smokes at the gas station.

[Avatard]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31981559/ns/us_news-life/

California sprouts marijuana ‘green rush’
Debate rages on whether to legalize and tax state’s hottest commodity