Homeslice..pagin mister Homeslice

[pauldun170]

care to bless this story with the appropriate smiley?


Teen fined $25,000 for cost of NH mountain rescue
By HOLLY RAMER, Associated Press Writer Holly Ramer, Associated Press Writer Fri Jul 17, 5:27 pm ET

CONCORD, N.H. – A Massachusetts teenager who spent three nights alone on Mount Washington in April after he sprained an ankle and veered off marked trails has been fined more than $25,000 for the cost of his rescue.

Scott Mason had been praised for utilizing his Eagle Scout skills — sleeping in the crevice of a boulder and jump-starting fires with hand sanitzer gel. But authorities say he wasn't prepared for the conditions he encountered and shouldn't have set out on such an ambitious hike.

"Yes, he'd been out there in July when you could step across the brooks. And people have been out there in winter in hard-packed snow. But with these spring conditions, it was soft snow, it was deep snow," said Fish and Game Maj. Tim Acerno.

Acerno said he believes Mason's fine is the largest ever sought under a 9-year-old New Hampshire law that allows lost hikers and climbers to be charged for rescue costs. Mason's rescue was particularly expensive because the helicopters the state typically used were unavailable, and a helicopter from Maine had to be brought in, Acerno said.

Mason, 17, of Halifax, Mass., had planned to spend one day hiking 17 miles in the New Hampshire mountains but ended up lost after he hurt his ankle and decided to take a shortcut. The shortcut led him into rising water and deep snow caused by unseasonably warm weather.

Mason was negligent in continuing up the mountain with an injury and veering off the marked path, Acerno said. Negligence, he said, is based on judging what a reasonable person would do in the same situation.

"When I twist my ankle, I turn around and come down. He kept going up," Acerno said.

"It was his negligence that led to him getting into that predicament," he said. "Once he was in that predicament, yes, that's what we praise him for — he used his Boy Scout skills, and that's why he's still alive."

Several states, including neighboring Maine and Vermont, have rescue repayment laws similiar to New Hampshire, though others tend to be more lenient. In Washington state, a bill that would have created a reimbursement system with fines capped at $500 never even made it out of committee this year. In New Hampshire, however, lawmakers made it even easier to charge for rescues last year when they changed the law to allow fines for those who acted negligently instead of the harder to prove standard of recklessness.

New Hampshire officials have estimated that they could seek reimbursement in about 40 of the 140 or so rescues it typically handles each year. The money goes to the Fish and Game department's rescue fund. In most cases, hikers pay a few hundred dollars.

For the fiscal year that ended June 30, there were 131 missions that cost $175,320, Acerno said. He did not know how many of them resulted in fines.

Mason's family said they would not comment on the bill, which was mailed July 10. Mason has until August 9 to pay the bill; he could also take the state to court to contest the fine.

[Homeslice]

:zowned:

[Kaneman]

What a crock of shit.
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[karl_1052]

What a crock of shit.

Bullshit.
why should anyone else have to pay for his foolishness?

I agree with that ruling and law.

[Tmall]

Bullshit.
why should anyone else have to pay for his foolishness?

I agree with that ruling and law.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that's their job. They're getting paid to do it regardless if some dumbass is stuck on a mountain, or some fat lady has a heart attack.


I know for a fact we don't bill people when we pluck them from the jaws of death. Even if it was a dumb idea to take their 20' sail boat out into hurricane force winds.

And I assure you, 28,000 dollars doesn't cover over a couple hours of fuel when we're speeding to a distress call.

[EpyonXero]

Bullshit.
why should anyone else have to pay for his foolishness?

I agree with that ruling and law.

Yeah, it makes sense in theory but unless this kid's parents are rich theres no way theyll be able to pay this bill. Theyll have to go to court and the state will end up paying even more money to process the case. If you want to fine people to discourage them from making bad decisions like that at least make it reasonable.

[Kaneman]

Its their fucking job, its not a business, its a taxpayer funded service. They're basing their charges on the fact that he veered off the beaten path, meaning he made a mistake and they think he should pay.

Okay, so by the same logic coming down the line will be surcharges on speeding tickets, you get to pay the fine plus cover the officer's time and gas.

House catch on fire? Well you should've had fire extinguishers in every room, here's your bill to cover the time of an entire firefighter squad, all the diesel they had to use, water, chemicals, and the medical bills of the firefighter who got burned. Can't pay? We'll see you in court.

Burgler breaks into your home while you're away, officer responds and gets shot. Now you've got extensive hospital or maybe even funeral bills on your hands. Not your fault you say? Well you should've had a protection trained pack of Dobermans.

Got raped in Central Park? Well you shouldn't have been foolish enough to walk alone at night without combat training and a stun gun. Here's your bill for a crime investigation.
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[karl_1052]

Its their fucking job, its not a business, its a taxpayer funded service. They're basing their charges on the fact that he veered off the beaten path, meaning he made a mistake and they think he should pay.

Okay, so by the same logic coming down the line will be surcharges on speeding tickets, you get to pay the fine plus cover the officer's time and gas.

House catch on fire? Well you should've had fire extinguishers in every room, here's your bill to cover the time of an entire firefighter squad, all the diesel they had to use, water, chemicals, and the medical bills of the firefighter who got burned. Can't pay? We'll see you in court.

Burgler breaks into your home while you're away, officer responds and gets shot. Now you've got extensive hospital or maybe even funeral bills on your hands. Not your fault you say? Well you should've had a protection trained pack of Dobermans.

Got raped in Central Park? Well you shouldn't have been foolish enough to walk alone at night without combat training and a stun gun. Here's your bill for a crime investigation.

with a reach that long you should play left field for the yankees.:wtfru:

[Kaneman]

with a reach that long you should play left field for the yankees.:wtfru:

I don't think its a reach it all. When public service becomes profitable then the goal will be to maximize profits. If its truly a matter of the local government not being able to fund it then resources should be diverted from where they aren't needed for public safety purposes. I.E., speed traps, drug/prostitution stings, etc. etc.

Most things that require the intervention of the PD or FD are entirely preventable. Lets use one of the most common of these, motor vehicle collisions, as it would be the most likely to be next in line for fees. Almost all MVCs are preventable, and many times are due to outright negligence of one or both drivers. So why not apply a fee to these people? "Ma'am, if you want me to use the Jaws and get you out of there I'm going to need to see insurance or a credit card!" Here's your $25,000 bill, you're welcome for saving your life.

House fires are also almost always preventable. Why would the FD not charge people for this too? You left the candle burning, you left the stove on, you haven't had your electrical system checked lately. The fire is YOUR fault, now YOU get to pay. Hey, at least they saved your cat. (That'll cost ya too)

I don't see how either scenario is different from a hiker becoming lost and needing a life-saving rescue. Yes, its his fault he got lost and he probably should've stayed on the path. It is a mistake, it should not result in a debt that will burden him for years to come.

You asked why should anyone else have to pay for his foolishness and I ask why any of us should have to pay for anything that doesn't directly benefit us. Homeschoolers and people with no kids still pay property taxes to fund the local school district. People that commute on bicycles and motorcycles pay the same amount of taxes to fund the highway dept. Good drivers pay higher insurance rates to compensate for bad drivers. And so it goes on and on and on.

This is the price of living in society. Taxpayer funded services should NEVER be billed to a tax payer. Now, if he was an illegal and it can be proven that he is living in the U.S. without paying taxes then yes, bill the fuck out of him.
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[fasternyou929]

A Massachusetts teenager who spent three nights alone on Mount Washington in April after he sprained an ankle and veered off marked trails has been fined more than $25,000 for the cost of his rescue.

For the fiscal year that ended June 30, there were 131 missions that cost $175,320, Acerno said. He did not know how many of them resulted in fines.

Mason's family said they would not comment on the bill, which was mailed July 10. Mason has until August 9 to pay the bill; he could also take the state to court to contest the fine.So the average cost of a rescue is $1,338 but Mason's was $25,000 (if they're billing him dollar for dollar). I'm sure the fact he single-handedly increased the annual rescue bill by 16% has something to do with them making an example of him.

[karl_1052]

Most things that require the intervention of the PD or FD are entirely preventable. Lets use one of the most common of these, motor vehicle collisions, as it would be the most likely to be next in line for fees. Almost all MVCs are preventable, and many times are due to outright negligence of one or both drivers. So why not apply a fee to these people? "Ma'am, if you want me to use the Jaws and get you out of there I'm going to need to see insurance or a credit card!" Here's your $25,000 bill, you're welcome for saving your life.

I agree with this 100%. good thinking.

What if someone decided not to get a job? would you support giving them welfare, because they are too lazy to get a job?

[Tmall]

What if he were playing Ei premiums and lost his job?

[ericr]

I say we let the gene pool clean itself out... let the family rescue thier idiot son if they can find him instead of taxpayers paying for it. I think they have a valid point, the idiot wouldn't have gotten lost if he'd turned around and walked back down the trail. I have little sympathy for idiots though.

Maybe they'll start charging for life flights from Deals Gap and the Cherohala Skyway for the people that wreck from going too fast ;)

[karl_1052]

What if he were playing Ei premiums and lost his job?

I agree with this too, and if this kid paid his hiking insurance premiums, then the insurance should pick up the bill.

[Tmall]

I agree with this too, and if this kid paid his hiking insurance premiums, then the insurance should pick up the bill.


He paid those premiums everytime the government took their share off of the top of every dollar he earned or spent and then used it to pay the salary of the people employed to rescue stupid hikers.

[karl_1052]

He paid those premiums everytime the government took their share off of the top of every dollar he earned or spent and then used it to pay the salary of the people employed to rescue stupid hikers.

Probably not, since he is 17 and hiking, not working.

Besides, I pay those taxes too, and I say if he is dumb enough to get into that situation, leave him there.
Whatever happened to the overwhelming support for personal responsibility on MC forums?

[Tmall]

Probably not, since he is 17 and hiking, not working.

Besides, I pay those taxes too, and I say if he is dumb enough to get into that situation, leave him there.
Whatever happened to the overwhelming support for personal responsibility on MC forums?

I'm all for personal responsibility. The kid was an idiot for getting lost. But, he didn't do anything extraordinarily stupid. He got lost. It happens all the time.

[Rider]

I have no problem with the philosophy of "You fuck up, you pay the bill." If I did dumb shit like this I'd feel differently.. but you know what, I don't do dumb shit and if I did, I'd expect to pay for it. Being a moron has it's consequences and this is the price you pay for being an ass.

[ericr]

I have no problem with the philosophy of "You fuck up, you pay the bill." If I did dumb shit like this I'd feel differently.. but you know what, I don't do dumb shit and if I did, I'd expect to pay for it. Being a moron has it's consequences and this is the price you pay for being an ass.

That's exactly the problem with our society these days. No one thinks they should take responsibilty for thier own actions. Spill your hot coffee in your lap by taking the lid off in the car...sue McD's. Set your ladder on frozen mud in the morning and fall when it warms up later...sue the ladder company etc. Someone will sue Suzuki, Yamaha or Kawasaki soon for not having airbags like Honda does.

If that kid turned around and sued the park services for not marking the shortcut he wanted to take he could probably win the freakin case these days. (I just hope he doesn't read this :rolleyes: )

[Rider]

That's exactly the problem with our society these days. No one thinks they should take responsibilty for thier own actions. Spill your hot coffee in your lap by taking the lid off in the car...sue McD's. Set your ladder on frozen mud in the morning and fall when it warms up later...sue the ladder company etc. Someone will sue Suzuki, Yamaha or Kawasaki soon for not having airbags like Honda does.

If that kid turned around and sued the park services for not marking the shortcut he wanted to take he could probably win the freakin case these days. (I just hope he doesn't read this :rolleyes: )

You are a smart motherfucker. :beers: Complements are a rare occasion for me... You're ok in my book!

[101lifts2]

Its their fucking job, its not a business, its a taxpayer funded service. ......

Agreed...unless the state can proved neglegence or there was a specific law written to this effect, the state should eat the costs.

[Tmall]

I have no problem with the philosophy of "You fuck up, you pay the bill." If I did dumb shit like this I'd feel differently.. but you know what, I don't do dumb shit and if I did, I'd expect to pay for it. Being a moron has it's consequences and this is the price you pay for being an ass.


Didn't you drink an entire bottle of crown royal last night? If you'd somehow fallen asleep with a cigar (i'm reaching here) and your house burned down, would you eat the cost? Or would you claim it on insurance?


Because, the amount of alcohol you consumed would cause most reasonable people to be beyond intoxicated and likely do silly things. So, if anything had happened last night, would you have paid? Or would you have let your insurance do it?

[derf]

I think I will disagree with the majority on this one.

17 miles isn't all that rough for someone who is in good shape, hell I can do that before lunch. The story doesn't also say what the guy's reasons were for going on. Was the terrain behind him worse than what he was expecting? Would a shortcut have taken 5 miles off the trail? Was there possibly another trail that he was heading to?

[Tmall]

Derf, the kid was an idiot. Everybody knows that much like crashing, getting lost is a choice.

[ericr]

Didn't you drink an entire bottle of crown royal last night? If you'd somehow fallen asleep with a cigar (i'm reaching here) and your house burned down, would you eat the cost? Or would you claim it on insurance?


Because, the amount of alcohol you consumed would cause most reasonable people to be beyond intoxicated and likely do silly things. So, if anything had happened last night, would you have paid? Or would you have let your insurance do it?

THe difference there is he's paying home insurance out of his own pocket to cover damage to his home. It doesn't pay the firefighters directly but his taxes do, and yes, I'm all for letting the insurance pay some to the firefighters and cost coming out of my pocket if it's negligence.

No one here pays insurance to cover search and rescue costs when they get lost in the woods...they use taxpayer money (yep, you're paying his insurance now ;) ) that should be used to improve the parks instead of putting fuel in a helicopter and paying S&R guys to hunt for days for someone who left the trail. Years ago when someone didn't show up on time from a hike, the family and friends would go out looking for them, now we just let the govt. employee's handle it and don't think we should be resposible for the costs. :idk: Yes, more often than not the family and friends would get in more trouble searching so if they love the kid, pay someone to find him.

[Tmall]

One more time....


If the search and rescue people weren't searching and rescuing, then they would be paid for doing what exactly? Or is search and rescue somehow not in the job description?

[karl_1052]

Derf, the kid was an idiot. Everybody knows that much like crashing, getting lost is a choice.

Did you choose to ride your R6 too fast for your abilities?:D

[Tmall]

Yes. As you also chose to ride too fast through town when you broke your pelvis?

And neither of us paid for any medical care, so I think they're both bad examples.. :lol:

[CrazyKell]

People that commute on bicycles and motorcycles pay the same amount of taxes to fund the highway dept.
.

No they don't. In theory most highway taxes are levied on fuel.

Spill your hot coffee in your lap by taking the lid off in the car...sue McD's.

I wish for once people would actually KNOW what they're talking about with this case (and lawsuits in general). Seriously. Educate yourself on it and THEN spew what you'd like about it. :wtfru:

I think there's probably a happy medium. Why not have a fine system that's similar to the Washington bill that didn't pass? At least it would be something. :idk:

I saw a dateline about this once and there was a guy who continually goes out and gets in bad situations to be rescued just because he can. He's at something like 15 (I don't remember the number so I could be way off) rescues that all cost a ton of money. So where do you stand on a guy like that who's doing it purposefully? :shrug:

[Kaneman]

No they don't. In theory most highway taxes are levied on fuel.



I wish for once people would actually KNOW what they're talking about with this case (and lawsuits in general). Seriously. Educate yourself on it and THEN spew what you'd like about it. :wtfru:

I think there's probably a happy medium. Why not have a fine system that's similar to the Washington bill that didn't pass? At least it would be something. :idk:

I saw a dateline about this once and there was a guy who continually goes out and gets in bad situations to be rescued just because he can. He's at something like 15 (I don't remember the number so I could be way off) rescues that all cost a ton of money. So where do you stand on a guy like that who's doing it purposefully? :shrug:

He's an idiot, but still entitled to be rescued free of charge. They can chalk it up to practice. Seriously, with all the tens of thousands of dollars that governments wastes its now too much to ask to be rescued without getting a hefty bill? Unreal.

All those supporting these bills...are you also supporting bills for every other public service as mentioned in my previous post?
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[karl_1052]

Yes. As you also chose to ride too fast through town when you broke your pelvis?

And neither of us paid for any medical care, so I think they're both bad examples.. :lol:

touche:lol

(even though I was not at fault)

[z06boy]

My initial reaction to this was that it is BS and it is their job and no fine should be imposed BUT after reading some of the replies here and then re-reading the article I feel differently.

The reason is due to these few lines right here...

a 9-year-old New Hampshire law that allows lost hikers and climbers to be charged for rescue costs. Mason's rescue was particularly expensive because the helicopters the state typically used were unavailable, and a helicopter from Maine had to be brought in, Acerno said.

Ok this is the law where he was hiking...plain and simple...ignorance is not a defense.


Mason was negligent in continuing up the mountain with an injury and veering off the marked path, Acerno said. Negligence, he said, is based on judging what a reasonable person would do in the same situation.

When I twist my ankle, I turn around and come down. He kept going up, Acerno said.

It was his negligence that led to him getting into that predicament," he said. "Once he was in that predicament, yes, that's what we praise him for — he used his Boy Scout skills, and that's why he's still alive.

The kid made bad decisions...the law is the law and it was his own fault. The marked trail is there for a reason...stay the fvck on it. :idk:

I don't however agree with the amount of the fine...something more reasonable should be worked out imho.

[HurricaneHeather]

I didn't read all of this, but when I got hit the Fire Department sent me a bill. I found out last night that according to my health insurance provider only about half of it was 'In Network' so I am going to have to pay for the rest of it out of pocket. Sucks to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[defector]

We have the same fine type of situation here.

Idiots who attempt to drive through obviously flooded areas with fast moving water get to pay for the rescue costs. It happens every year during the monsoon season.

[Kaneman]

I don't however agree with the amount of the fine...something more reasonable should be worked out imho.

Yet this is exactly what's going to happen with these types of laws.

Its just another way to get more money out of the general population. At some point the majority of people are going to need some public assistance of some kind, not just stupid people Rider.
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[the chi]

Derf, the kid was an idiot. Everybody knows that much like crashing, getting lost is a choice.


:lol: I just have to quote it cuz this made me laugh.

I started off thinking I agree 100% with Kaneman, but after reading some of the replies, this is a tough one. I dont beleive people should be fined for needing assistance, like a house burning down, or becoming lost. But at the same time, I think people should have to pay for being idiots. I dont know which side to lean towards...

What about the child that get seperated from his boy scout troop while camping in the woods? Should he pay?

What about the climbers on Mt. Everest, hit by a random spring storm that wasnt on the radar when they left base camp?

Or the climber who slipped on rocks and fell 100 feet down the mountain and broke his legs and cant climb out?

[Kaneman]

:lol: I just have to quote it cuz this made me laugh.

I started off thinking I agree 100% with Kaneman, but after reading some of the replies, this is a tough one. I dont beleive people should be fined for needing assistance, like a house burning down, or becoming lost. But at the same time, I think people should have to pay for being idiots. I dont know which side to lean towards...

What about the child that get seperated from his boy scout troop while camping in the woods? Should he pay?

What about the climbers on Mt. Everest, hit by a random spring storm that wasnt on the radar when they left base camp?

Or the climber who slipped on rocks and fell 100 feet down the mountain and broke his legs and cant climb out?

And then, who decides what "being an idiot" really means? Is it....piloting a vehicle at 70mph with no seat-belt, airbags, ABS, and safety cage around cars that weigh 10 times as much?
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[unknownroad]

It's a long-ass QFT, but here's a QFT nonetheless. :iagree:


House fires are also almost always preventable. Why would the FD not charge people for this too? You left the candle burning, you left the stove on, you haven't had your electrical system checked lately. The fire is YOUR fault, now YOU get to pay. Hey, at least they saved your cat. (That'll cost ya too)

I don't see how either scenario is different from a hiker becoming lost and needing a life-saving rescue. Yes, its his fault he got lost and he probably should've stayed on the path. It is a mistake, it should not result in a debt that will burden him for years to come.

I wonder if the Town will catch wind of this and start charging for lifeguard rescues down here... i think they're up to 140 already this season.

[Kaneman]

I wonder if the Town will catch wind of this and start charging for lifeguard rescues down here... i think they're up to 140 already this season.

Exactly, I could easily argue that swimming in the ocean is incredibly dangerous, irresponsible and basically makes you an idiot. Undertow, sharks, jellyfish, cramps, waves....its like a scene out of Hostile in there. The kind of idiot that swims in the ocean deserves to have to pay for his stupidity if/when he needs a rescue. If it weren't for idiots like those of you that swim in the ocean we wouldn't even need lifeguard services so if you need a rescue you can pay for a whole week of their salary!

And of course you could easily use the same argument against motorcyclists.

I get the point that people with brains hate stupid people, but do you really want the government deciding what's stupid and what's not? Or maybe we should all drive to work in a Ford Excursion with 20 airbags, sit in our safe little cubicles for 9 hours and go straight home....just to be on the safe side.
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[z06boy]

:lol: I just have to quote it cuz this made me laugh.

I started off thinking I agree 100% with Kaneman, but after reading some of the replies, this is a tough one. I dont beleive people should be fined for needing assistance, like a house burning down, or becoming lost. But at the same time, I think people should have to pay for being idiots. I dont know which side to lean towards...

What about the child that get seperated from his boy scout troop while camping in the woods? Should he pay?

What about the climbers on Mt. Everest, hit by a random spring storm that wasnt on the radar when they left base camp?

Or the climber who slipped on rocks and fell 100 feet down the mountain and broke his legs and cant climb out?

Yep that's what I think/wonder as well. I also started off 100 % agreeing with Kaneman...read the replies and then read the story once again and it is a tough one imho.

[Particle Man]

We have the same fine type of situation here.

Idiots who attempt to drive through obviously flooded areas with fast moving water get to pay for the rescue costs. It happens every year during the monsoon season.

That totally makes sense to me.

[Tmall]

Knowingly driving through a river and getting lost are on the same page?

You guys are just grasping here.


What about if your sled breaks down in the bush particle? Should have been better maintained? Should have had an extra?

[defector]

I wasn't necessarily comparing the two indidents directly. Just merely pointing out that there are laws here to have people pay fines for "unnecessary" rescues.

[HurricaneHeather]

Knowingly driving through a river and getting lost are on the same page?

You guys are just grasping here.


What about if your sled breaks down in the bush particle? Should have been better maintained? Should have had an extra?

I read this about three times trying to figure out what Northern thing a bush particle was. :lol:

[Tmall]

I read this about three times trying to figure out what Northern thing a bush particle was. :lol:

Let's leave commas out of this..

[EpyonXero]

Exactly, I could easily argue that swimming in the ocean is incredibly dangerous, irresponsible and basically makes you an idiot. Undertow, sharks, jellyfish, cramps, waves....its like a scene out of Hostile in there. The kind of idiot that swims in the ocean deserves to have to pay for his stupidity if/when he needs a rescue. If it weren't for idiots like those of you that swim in the ocean we wouldn't even need lifeguard services so if you need a rescue you can pay for a whole week of their salary!

And of course you could easily use the same argument against motorcyclists.

I get the point that people with brains hate stupid people, but do you really want the government deciding what's stupid and what's not? Or maybe we should all drive to work in a Ford Excursion with 20 airbags, sit in our safe little cubicles for 9 hours and go straight home....just to be on the safe side.

Exactly.

[Particle Man]

Knowingly driving through a river and getting lost are on the same page?

You guys are just grasping here.


What about if your sled breaks down in the bush particle? Should have been better maintained? Should have had an extra?bite your freakin' tongue, my new sled only has two-tenths of a mile on it :lol:

If I'm riding alone, I never ride farther than my in-laws can drive their truck out to get me (all the trails nearby are close to roads) if I break down and can't fix the sled on the trail. I don't do mountain riding for the simple reason that I know for a fact that I'm not equiped to do so.

and I do have an extra sled ;)

I read this about three times trying to figure out what Northern thing a bush particle was. :lol:

:lmao: