Why America's Economy Fell off The Cliff

[Ducati Diva]

SO TRUE!!!!!!



John Doe started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6 am. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG), He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA ), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE), and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA).

After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA), he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO), to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN), to the radio (MADE IN INDIA), he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY), filled it with GAS (from SAUDIA ARABIA), and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN JOB.

At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day checking his computer (made in MALAYSIA), John decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL), poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE), and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in AMERICA.

AND NOW HE'S HOPING HE CAN GET HELP FROM A PRESIDENT (MADE IN KENYA).

HELLO, ANYONE HOME IN THERE . . . . . . . WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!



Don't know if this should be here or war room???? Mods move it where you want if not the right thread

[VatorMan]

Well, people anywhere but here wouldn't have half that shit. Reason he can't/won't "find" a job is he won't accept anything less than what he considers decent pay. America was founded on cheap labor and now there is no such thing. Buying sneakers that cost $200 just so an American can make $30 lacing them up is lame. Kids from overseas whip our kids asses in school as well.

Wake up America ! You need your ass kicked into gear !!

[Ducati Diva]

Well, people anywhere but here wouldn't have half that shit. Reason he can't/won't "find" a job is he won't accept anything less than what he considers decent pay. America was founded on cheap labor and now there is no such thing. Buying sneakers that cost $200 just so an American can make $30 lacing them up is lame. Kids from overseas whip our kids asses in school as well.

Wake up America ! You need your ass kicked into gear !!

Truth there as well!

[Particle Man]

Well, people anywhere but here wouldn't have half that shit. Reason he can't/won't "find" a job is he won't accept anything less than what he considers decent pay. America was founded on cheap labor and now there is no such thing. Buying sneakers that cost $200 just so an American can make $30 lacing them up is lame. Kids from overseas whip our kids asses in school as well.

Wake up America ! You need your ass kicked into gear !!

hence my earlier comment in some other threads that there's such a sense of entitlement these days basically along the lines of "I deserve a paycheck just for showing up to work"

[Rider]

Greed is the only answer.

[pauldun170]

that's the dumbest thing I ever read

My alarm clock is made in China,my coffeepot made in Italy
I don't wear designer Jeans...cupcake.
Don't wear a watch
Fucking Calculator?
They're goddamn sneakers not fucking tennis shoes.
New electric skillet? I'm sorry I have fully functioning kitchen and barbecue. I don't need an "electric skillet.

My radio is part of my alarm clock, I haven't had a dedicated "radio" in years.
My jap car was made in America
My gas was most likely made in America using crude ship from America.

The rest of it is just isolationist, protectionist xenophobic entitlement driven bullshit probably written by some overpaid union worker who likes to divide everything in to "us' (meaning the other guys in the union) and "them" (everybody else) finished off with a ignorant racist bullshit.

[Amber Lamps]

Greed is the only answer.

In a way I agree with this sentiment!

The problem with a lot of the complaining about products being made overseas is one simple question. Are you willing to go to work for $3 an hour? Maybe we should bring slavery or child labor back. That's how we used to compete... It never ceases to amaze me when people (no one specific) are sitting at the desk of their $40-60,000 job complaining because "Americans" won't take the same pay as people in Sri Lanka or wherever. Let's suppose that we wanted to start competing with China, are you willing to pay 4-10 times as much for stuff as you do now? In many cases, more expensive American versions of products are available, why don't you buy them? No offense but the OP typed this thread on a computer, most likely made overseas. Sitting at a desk, most likely made overseas. A desk cluttered with items most of which were made overseas... :idk:

[pauldun170]

In a way I agree with this sentiment!

The problem with a lot of the complaining about products being made overseas is one simple question. Are you willing to go to work for $3 an hour? Maybe we should bring slavery or child labor back. That's how we used to compete... It never ceases to amaze me when people (no one specific) are sitting at the desk of their $40-60,000 job complaining because "Americans" won't take the same pay as people in Sri Lanka or wherever. Let's suppose that we wanted to start competing with China, are you willing to pay 4-10 times as much for stuff as you do now? In many cases, more expensive American versions of products are available, why don't you buy them? No offense but the OP typed this thread on a computer, most likely made overseas. Sitting at a desk, most likely made overseas. A desk cluttered with items most of which were made overseas... :idk:


"they took our jobs"

http://www.youtube.com/user/theycallme26?ytsession=dLMPtl3jHfVANYUX5jdrGTAiBpk _0onHAgTPTDxjVstUUWVqM5AkspPv6mS-7nq1EyGVmHxEDJ6oJMZmklICp8lUqY9p0QMIQOVB8ZRFVjJqBt tT1VDRT7K4sWaATbui0FmFnl-a2OGy0cpO3JavLFQRM4QCGD-bF8D6m7EGx_-SdeaXlxgFPnsHJaVVuxDM8RFvE4KZNwViAbTr62BqEsdCeAlST GJQAePkq3XSdRa3V37D_OTpOGTVLtwDKrCUf90SUgkqkZnuylC TJkfAxdr1Vv2iB5E8MVsZ0EnzWtfNfDju98eA9g

[Rider]

In a way I agree with this sentiment!

The problem with a lot of the complaining about products being made overseas is one simple question. Are you willing to go to work for $3 an hour? Maybe we should bring slavery or child labor back. That's how we used to compete... It never ceases to amaze me when people (no one specific) are sitting at the desk of their $40-60,000 job complaining because "Americans" won't take the same pay as people in Sri Lanka or wherever. Let's suppose that we wanted to start competing with China, are you willing to pay 4-10 times as much for stuff as you do now? In many cases, more expensive American versions of products are available, why don't you buy them? No offense but the OP typed this thread on a computer, most likely made overseas. Sitting at a desk, most likely made overseas. A desk cluttered with items most of which were made overseas... :idk:

Exactly. There is a book out called Cheap. It goes into detail the reason our economy is in the shiiter. It also talks about the Walmart Effect. There is a movie called Walmart: The High Cost of Low Price. You should check out both of those.

[Amber Lamps]

Exactly. There is a book out called Cheap. It goes into detail the reason our economy is in the shiiter. It also talks about the Walmart Effect. There is a movie called Walmart: The High Cost of Low Price. You should check out both of those.

Yep, it a dual edged problem, we want to make all the money in the world and we want to buy shit for as cheap as possible... it's an impossible situation really.:idk:

[EpyonXero]

The economic boom of the '80s and '90s was based on the cheap, plentiful labor from those countries listed in the original post.

Also, the Wal-Mart effect is a great book that anyone interested in this subject should read. Wal-Mart definitely puts pressure on companies to move overseas but they only do it so they can give the people what they want. The lowest prices possible.

[shmike]

Wal-Mart definitely puts pressure on companies to move overseas but they only do it so they can give the people what they want. The lowest prices possible.

Wal-Mart always looks out for the customer.

It has nothing to do with profit margins or share prices.

[EpyonXero]

Wal-Mart always looks out for the customer.

It has nothing to do with profit margins or share prices.

I used to think Wal-Mart was evil but now I think theyre like the robot in one of those sci-fi movies. Hes programmed to keep humans safe and decides the best way to do that is to never let them leave the house.

[Ducati Diva]

Now it's time for me to come clean. I did not write this post. It is a homework assignment. It was printed in a small town paper as a reply to a article about the death of small towns due to mills closing. My teacher wanted responses from a cross section of America to see how people would respond to the statements. I was afraid if I said this in the beginning the responses would not be the same. Thanks for the honest answers and I hope I didn't offend anyone to bad. Please continue the discussion, it makes for a good debate.

Pauldun thanks for calling me cupcake I about feel out of my chair laughing :lol:

[jetskifast]

Every job sent out of country, one less American able to buy products.
Someday Americans will get clue, you need people with jobs to buy your products.

[Rider]

Every job sent out of country, one less American able to buy products.
Someday Americans will get clue, you need people with jobs to buy your products.

We are going through a global equalization. Eventually it will even out and things will cost the same no matter what country they are made in. It will take a while and there will be some huge growing pains involved, but in the end labor rates all over the world will be the same or at least close to it.

What it means to the US is that our standard of living will go down while the standard of living in India, China and other emerging countries will improve.

I don't like it but that's a reality that we all need to get used to. When we finally equal out, the Wal Marts of the world will go away because there will be no need for them.

I'd love to maintain my standard of living but it can't happen because too man people are willing to buy overseas products keeping Wal Mart in business so that they are able to save a few dollars.

[smileyman]

Rider owns this thread! He has it pretty nailed. Corporate greed sank our boat. Lets talk in a motorcycle analogy. We gained a couple decades easy profit by selling out to overseas like a racer might make big gains on the brakes going into a corner. The competition gets a cleaner entrance, line, and gets back in the gas quicker leaving the late braker for a time. Like money there is only so much traction you have to work with. slow steady gains that will sustain themselves are better than all out gain at the expense of having to lose time gathering yourself back up. Savvy?

[goof2]

Wal-Mart always looks out for the customer.

It has nothing to do with profit margins or share prices.

Two companies I can think of off the top of my head that didn't seem to care about profit margins, share prices, or what the customers wanted are GM and Chrysler. How are they doing?

What makes you or breaks you in retail is same store sales over time. Wal-mart is able to keep those numbers increasing fairly consistently despite the fact that the ones I have been in are dirty and take about forever to get checked out of. People don't seem to care.

Target pretty much has the same crap as Wal-mart but it costs a few percent more. For that few percent more the stores seem to be cleaner and wait times are significantly reduced. Despite these improvements in shopping experience Target has around 15% of the revenues of Wal-mart.

In general people are willing to trade a good shopping experience, helpful and knowledgeable employees, and a desire to buy American products if it means keeping a bit more money in their pockets. Wal-mart has figured this out and capitalizes on it. They slavishly focus on the one thing that makes their customers happy, lower prices. That is what makes them profitable and what drives their share prices up.

[goof2]

Rider owns this thread! He has it pretty nailed. Corporate greed sank our boat. Lets talk in a motorcycle analogy. We gained a couple decades easy profit by selling out to overseas like a racer might make big gains on the brakes going into a corner. The competition gets a cleaner entrance, line, and gets back in the gas quicker leaving the late braker for a time. Like money there is only so much traction you have to work with. slow steady gains that will sustain themselves are better than all out gain at the expense of having to lose time gathering yourself back up. Savvy?

How is it corporate greed? I guess it is a chicken or the egg discussion, but Wal-mart would not be the company that it is today if a majority of Americans didn't give a shit where something is made as long as they can save a few percent. I place the blame directly on the American consumer. The corporations are just giving them what they want.

[Rider]

How is it corporate greed? I guess it is a chicken or the egg discussion, but Wal-mart would not be the company that it is today if a majority of Americans didn't give a shit where something is made as long as they can save a few percent. I place the blame directly on the American consumer. The corporations are just giving them what they want.

It's both but corporate greed is the main factor. US companies do not pay well enough so that ALL their employees can afford American made products exclusively. In addition to that, American companies are now outsourcing to foreign labor to increase profits. These foreign made products are making their way back to the US because the American consumers can only afford them or at least choose to buy to save money.

[smileyman]

Walmart wasnt my example. I would say more the manufacturers than the retailers when it comes to outsourcing labor and materials, then gouging the consumer for every dime they can finance which brings round again to the wall street banks...

[pauldun170]

10 minutes to the nearest Walmart
15 minutes to the nearest Target.

I'll take Target.

I'm willing to pay a few extra cents for the better product and nicer enviroment.
Walmart by us is staffed by people who don't care and is frequented by losers and assholes. The stock is poorly maintained and more often then not the shit on the shelves is damaged or partially opened.

That I'm not going nor bringing my family anyplace where losers hang out to smoke and curse in front of the premises...apparently with nothing better to do than to disrepect themselves and everyone around them.

(not that I am offended by smoking or cursing in general)

[HurricaneHeather]

10 minutes to the nearest Walmart
15 minutes to the nearest Target.

I'll take Target.

I'm willing to pay a few extra cents for the better product and nicer enviroment.


(not that I am offended by smoking or cursing in general)


:werd:

I had to take my mom to wal-mart this weekend and I was cringing the whole time. Ick all over.

[smileyman]

Ima Dollar General man myself...

[Particle Man]

Ima Dollar General man myself...

I get all my cleaning supplies from there (lysol, simple green, etc).

[CrazyKell]

I'm no saint but whenever possible I buy local and I buy Canadian content. So if the opportunity arose I would buy a Toyota Matrix because it's built in the same city I live in.

I blame the stupidity of people on most problems. :idk:

[Rider]

Think globally, drink locally. Support your local brewery. :cheers:

[Amber Lamps]

Walmart wasnt my example. I would say more the manufacturers than the retailers when it comes to outsourcing labor and materials, then gouging the consumer for every dime they can finance which brings round again to the wall street banks...

Yea me too! Walmart doesn't control where products are made. They carry Sony tvs and they carry Visio. If Curtis Mathis was still around they would probably carry that brand as well. I bought my girlfriend a Braun toothbrush from Walmart the other day. It is made in China. If I had purchased it at Sears, it still would have been made in China. If I purchased it at Mom and Pop's Dental Supplies, it still would have been made in China. The only difference would be how much I paid for it.:idk:

[Particle Man]

Think globally, drink locally. Support your local brewery. :cheers:

conserve water, drink beer.

[Rider]

Yea me too! Walmart doesn't control where products are made. They carry Sony tvs and they carry Visio. If Curtis Mathis was still around they would probably carry that brand as well. I bought my girlfriend a Braun toothbrush from Walmart the other day. It is made in China. If I had purchased it at Sears, it still would have been made in China. If I purchased it at Mom and Pop's Dental Supplies, it still would have been made in China. The only difference would be how much I paid for it.:idk:

They do indirectly control it. You've read about WalMarts pressure to get lower cost items from manufacturers. The manufacturers need to outsource jobs overseas in order to meet WM's strict pricing demands.

[goof2]

It's both but corporate greed is the main factor. US companies do not pay well enough so that ALL their employees can afford American made products exclusively. In addition to that, American companies are now outsourcing to foreign labor to increase profits. These foreign made products are making their way back to the US because the American consumers can only afford them or at least choose to buy to save money.

Sure, not everybody at every company can afford to buy American made products. I can agree with that. The fact is for a lot of products almost no one buys American. America used to make a lot of furniture. People stopped caring about quality and craftsmanship and only cared about getting a couch for 50-25% of the cost of American furniture. Now America makes almost no furniture, even though a conservative estimate is 25% of Americans can afford it. I don't see how that is corporate greed vs. Americans wanting cheap shit that doesn't last because it costs less.

[Amber Lamps]

They do indirectly control it. You've read about WalMarts pressure to get lower cost items from manufacturers. The manufacturers need to outsource jobs overseas in order to meet WM's strict pricing demands.

Walmart demands lower prices because their customers demand lower prices. Walmart didn't exist when Curtis Mathis went out of business. WM didn't force Microsoft to make the X-Box overseas. They didn't close the Electrolux, General Electric or the furniture plants around Grand Rapids, Mi. It was the Unions and the consumer. American workers demanded higher wages/less work and American consumers demanded lower prices/less corporate profit. Look at the stink it raises when a company posts a profit. Everyone is up in arms, demanding an investigation!:lol:

Look at the Union workers picketing their $40,000+/year jobs because the evil company wants to save money on insurance by raising their co-pay to $20/visit. Picketing because the evil company wants to update their equipment to be more efficient and better able to compete. My job took me into factories everyday and I'd see American workers standing around, chit chatting, basically fucking off. Then I see video of factory workers in other countries busting their asses, doing they best they can and even *gasp* trying to do more than the minimum required. It's not hard to see where it all went for me.

[Amber Lamps]

Sure, not everybody at every company can afford to buy American made products. I can agree with that. The fact is for a lot of products almost no one buys American. America used to make a lot of furniture. People stopped caring about quality and craftsmanship and only cared about getting a couch for 50-25% of the cost of American furniture. Now America makes almost no furniture, even though a conservative estimate is 25% of Americans can afford it. I don't see how that is corporate greed vs. Americans wanting cheap shit that doesn't last because it costs less.

See but that's always the implication, that foreign made products are junk vs American made... it's just not true! In fact motorcycles and cars are a prime example of why this isn't always the case. American made products of this type have been consistently higher priced but lower quality. If it weren't for tariffs and other restrictions, you'd be able to buy a Toyota Camary for under $10,000! The same was true with televisions, stereos, and other electronics. Asia did it better and cheaper. If you consider the Braun, made in China, toothbrush I just purchased to be junk... Well consider what the level of quality would have to be to make an electric toothbrush in this country for the same price. I'd be afraid to use it!:lol:

[Rider]

Sure, not everybody at every company can afford to buy American made products. I can agree with that. The fact is for a lot of products almost no one buys American. America used to make a lot of furniture. People stopped caring about quality and craftsmanship and only cared about getting a couch for 50-25% of the cost of American furniture. Now America makes almost no furniture, even though a conservative estimate is 25% of Americans can afford it. I don't see how that is corporate greed vs. Americans wanting cheap shit that doesn't last because it costs less.

Walmart demands lower prices because their customers demand lower prices. Walmart didn't exist when Curtis Mathis went out of business. WM didn't force Microsoft to make the X-Box overseas. They didn't close the Electrolux, General Electric or the furniture plants around Grand Rapids, Mi. It was the Unions and the consumer. American workers demanded higher wages/less work and American consumers demanded lower prices/less corporate profit. Look at the stink it raises when a company posts a profit. Everyone is up in arms, demanding an investigation!:lol:

Look at the Union workers picketing their $40,000+/year jobs because the evil company wants to save money on insurance by raising their co-pay to $20/visit. Picketing because the evil company wants to update their equipment to be more efficient and better able to compete. My job took me into factories everyday and I'd see American workers standing around, chit chatting, basically fucking off. Then I see video of factory workers in other countries busting their asses, doing they best they can and even *gasp* trying to do more than the minimum required. It's not hard to see where it all went for me.

I see exactly what both of you guys are saying and I agree for the most part. US consumers have grown to love cheap shit. Why did that happen? Because US manufacturers were charging a premium for quality stuff. Their employees demanded higher wages. In order to keep profits up they kept raising the prices on their goods. People got fed up with paying top dollar and decided cheaper was a better option. Why? because their employers were not paying them a salary that allowed to to afford high quality goods. So the birth of globalization occurred in order to keep operating profits high.
It's all about profit and keeping the shareholders happy. Always has been, always will be. Corporate greed or consumer greed ? Doesn't matter, it was still greed that is fucking up the economy.

[goof2]

See but that's always the implication, that foreign made products are junk vs American made... it's just not true! In fact motorcycles and cars are a prime example of why this isn't always the case. American made products of this type have been consistently higher priced but lower quality. If it weren't for tariffs and other restrictions, you'd be able to buy a Toyota Camary for under $10,000! The same was true with televisions, stereos, and other electronics. Asia did it better and cheaper. If you consider the Braun, made in China, toothbrush I just purchased to be junk... Well consider what the level of quality would have to be to make an electric toothbrush in this country for the same price. I'd be afraid to use it!:lol:

I was specifically talking about furniture when I said cheap shit that doesn't last. Most of the Asian furniture I see is all particle board covered in laminate. That stuff doesn't hold up and can't be refinished or effectively repaired after it breaks. American made furniture is typically made from a solid hardwood. It also typically lasts a long time and can be refinished once it starts looking beat up.

I agree with you on most other products, especially consumer electronics and cars. They cost less and are just as, if not more, reliable.

[goof2]

I see exactly what both of you guys are saying and I agree for the most part. US consumers have grown to love cheap shit. Why did that happen? Because US manufacturers were charging a premium for quality stuff. Their employees demanded higher wages. In order to keep profits up they kept raising the prices on their goods. People got fed up with paying top dollar and decided cheaper was a better option. Why? because their employers were not paying them a salary that allowed to to afford high quality goods. So the birth of globalization occurred in order to keep operating profits high.
It's all about profit and keeping the shareholders happy. Always has been, always will be. Corporate greed or consumer greed ? Doesn't matter, it was still greed that is fucking up the economy.

Yes, amazingly enough companies do try to make more than they spend. I don't consider that greed, and even if it is, the alternative is a less attractive option.

[Amber Lamps]

I see exactly what both of you guys are saying and I agree for the most part. US consumers have grown to love cheap shit. Why did that happen? Because US manufacturers were charging a premium for quality stuff. Their employees demanded higher wages. In order to keep profits up they kept raising the prices on their goods. People got fed up with paying top dollar and decided cheaper was a better option. Why? because their employers were not paying them a salary that allowed to to afford high quality goods. So the birth of globalization occurred in order to keep operating profits high.
It's all about profit and keeping the shareholders happy. Always has been, always will be. Corporate greed or consumer greed ? Doesn't matter, it was still greed that is fucking up the economy.


Hey I can't argue about greed with my dozen helmets, three big screen tvs, clothes/shoes I don't ever wear, etc.:lol: See but that's my point, in a way. Why exactly does every non-high school graduate pushing a broom at GM "deserve" to own a new car? For example, you have a pool table in your basement. Do you need it? How many rifles do you already own? Did you need a new one? We are all guilty. Hell, the only thing that will take us off of this entitlement merry-go-round is a depression to reset our sensibilities and expectations.IMHO :idk:

[Amber Lamps]

I was specifically talking about furniture when I said cheap shit that doesn't last. Most of the Asian furniture I see is all particle board covered in laminate. That stuff doesn't hold up and can't be refinished or effectively repaired after it breaks. American made furniture is typically made from a solid hardwood. It also typically lasts a long time and can be refinished once it starts looking beat up.

I agree with you on most other products, especially consumer electronics and cars. They cost less and are just as, if not more, reliable.

I'm from Grand Rapids, Mi "The Furniture Capital of the World" :lol:, trust me when I say that we lost the furniture and piano industry WAY before Chinese imports and particle board.

[smileyman]

Whats we got here is one of those chicken and egg situations. Was it corporate greed and poor domestic quality that caused consumers to cheap out, or was it overburdened middle class consumers getting fleeced by hi prices and their own gotta have it now attitudes that brought us here? does it matter in the end. Nah, there will be an equilibrium, a redistribution of wealth, perhaps globally and the cycle will start over...

[Amber Lamps]

Whats we got here is one of those chicken and egg situations. Was it corporate greed and poor domestic quality that caused consumers to cheap out, or was it overburdened middle class consumers getting fleeced by hi prices and their own gotta have it now attitudes that brought us here? does it matter in the end. Nah, there will be an equilibrium, a redistribution of wealth, perhaps globally and the cycle will start over...

Truth! A reset like the great depression.

[Particle Man]

Whats we got here is one of those chicken and egg situations. Was it corporate greed and poor domestic quality that caused consumers to cheap out, or was it overburdened middle class consumers getting fleeced by hi prices and their own gotta have it now attitudes that brought us here? does it matter in the end. Nah, there will be an equilibrium, a redistribution of wealth, perhaps globally and the cycle will start over...

mmm - chicken.

I think I'll order a chicken wing pizza.

:drool: