Well, part of it IS body type, but most fat people got that way because they were simply lazy. I'm lucky enough to have a fairly high metabolism and after literally two years of eating nothing but fast food and not working out, I've only jumped from 14% BF to 20% with a gain of about 20 lbs. Throw a person with different genetics on that same diet and no exercise and they'll blow up real quick. However, I saw the writing on the wall and knew I couldn't continue with that routine, so started eating right and working out again. But it's just been a couple weeks and I've only been lifting (no cardio), so no significant results yet.

Most fat people realize they're starting to get fat, but simply don't care or are too lazy to take care of it right away. Then it gets to the point where it would be a ton of work (pun intended) to lose all that weight and get in shape. Since they're lazy by nature, they continue to not care and tell themselves it would be too much work. They probably don't even realize just how much better they would feel if they were to get back in shape.

It's very difficult for me to make time to get my ass back in shape. I'm not a morning person, by any means, so I can't drag my ass out of bed early enough to work out then. But if I work out too late at night, then I have trouble going to sleep, making it even more difficult to get up in the morning. I've settled on working out in the evenings after work, but that takes time away from my daughter. It's a balancing act, but I know I have to lead a good example for my daughter, and if she sees me working out and trying to stay in shape, I have a better chance of her being healthy and not ending up like her mother (see above)

Didja miss the part about table sugar NOT triggering obesity, but that the HFCS DID trigger obesity?

How's THIS for a "food choice"; or are you oblivious to the fact that many (read: most) Americans DO drink sodas: If the sweetener in sodas has now been PROVEN to CAUSE obesity in lab animals, in concentrations HALF that of sugar, why are we to think it would be any different in humans?

By this reckoning, it can be said that even someone who attempts to take in only a moderate amount of soda that has been sweetened with HFCS, will likely risk obesity far more than someone who downs over twice as many sugared sodas.

I'm sorry, but that's significant when you consider that MOST Americans DO take in a moderate amount of soda, and may be "pushed over the edge" into obesity with just a moderate consumption of HFCS, as was presented in this study.

This shit needs to be off the market.

Make fucking Ethanol out of it.

How did you measure this 14 and 20% body fat?

Buy an impedance BF meter and in the AM on an empty stomach w/o clothes measure your body fat %.

You want to be thin... P90X motherfuckers. I know people who are ripped from that shit. I'm seriously considering buying it.

I'm with you on many points, but....

Gregman is totally right.

Drop the soda + eat whole foods = problem solved.

Agree.

I think you're missing my point.

Consuming a soda that contains HFCS is a CHOICE...an UNHEALTHY choice...and I don't feel sorry for people who want to play the victim for CHOOSING to do something unhealthy....consuming shit food....smoking...you name it.

It seems wicked juvenile to say "I'm gonna eat shit foods or smoke all I want" in one breath and then say "I'm fat or I have lung cancer and it's the fault of HFCS or cigarettes" in the next.

No...actually...it's YOUR fault for CHOOSING to consume things that you KNOW aren't good for you.

There are several morbidly obese folks where I work. I run on my lunch hour. Multiple times I've been asked by those folks why I run because I'm not fat. I think alot of people just don't get it. They don't seem to understand that people exercise both for health and to prevent obesity. They only see in terms of size.

Also, I still remember pregnancy quite clearly. It amazed me how the increase in weight made everything so much harder.

Even if soda only contained sugar, it's still fucking stupid to drink. That's gonna be at least 50g of pure sugar, along with acid that can damage your teeth and stomach lining. Last I checked nobody here was a teenager anymore, so put the soda down.

Its no use man, its a conspiracy to make people unhealthy. Can't you tell? Willpower and common sense are not allowed to prevail while grocery shopping, and the food industry is to blame for greed.

Oh, and sugar is perfectly safe, and doesnt raise blood sugar levels, causing the body to store fat. You see, every fact we have on how the body burns and stores fuel is thrown out the window because of a study on HFCS, because Avatard says so.

Will Power? Common sense? Nutritional education? What are those things! Theres only greedy fucks looking for someone to blame for their fat asses!

Lets blame HFCS, and not the 24 cans of soda and 8 boxes of mini cakes they bought and drank this week! It would be unfair to blame them for buying it!

Not everyone is a fucking food nazi, right? Are you? I'm not.

No, I don't binge on shit, but I do eat what some would call "junk" in moderation. So do MOST adults I know. This study shows that perhaps even in moderation, HFCS can cause obesity.

I'll say it again, it would make great fuel, but please stop feeding it to humans, Cane sugar is MUCH healthier, and really not that much more expensive to the industry.

They need to place public health above profits. This sweetener is now known to cause obesity in levels even HALF that of table sugar. It needs to be off the market.

And another thing...it's not just in sodas. It's in FUCKING EVERYTHING.

Avoiding HFCS in even moderate amounts (now known to cause obesity) just isn't that easy. It's in everything. It's nearly unavoidable.

I've had three meals so far today.

I have had no HFCS.

None planned for the rest of the day either.

It's not REALLY that hard to avoid it.

What did you eat, and how are you so sure?

There seems to be an opinion, in this country at least, that reading the ingrediants makes you a nerd or snob or whatever. I call it basic common sense. I mean, the literacy rate in this country is like 99% right? So what's stopping you? If you can read enough to read the TV Guide, you can read the fucking ingrediants.

Oh, and..........Vegetables, dried beans, oatmeal, rice, eggs, meat of any kind..........No HFCS in those.

Or you eat stuff that doesn't come in a box.

So far...

Cereal with blueberries for breakfast.

Grapefruit.

Raw carrots, celery and green beans.

Pork sandwich for lunch (sprouted rye bread).

Orange.


I am sure because except for the cereal and Almond Milk (I checked the ingredients) none of it came from a box.

What are you, some kind of hippy? :wtfru:

Look at most breads in the bread isle, kiddies. Get back to me.

I like how people that CHOOSE to exclude harmful things from their diets or habits are branded as "Nazis"....

Clever bit of reasoning, that....

It's not that MY choices are poor....NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...it's that people that make informed and healthy choices are Nazis.

Whatever....

Just because it is there doesn't mean you have to buy it.

Did you notice the ( ) after my sandwich?

...and you "holier than thou eaters" can just suck my dick, because the VAST MAJORITY of Americans DON'T make food selection a second fucking career (a quick peek down the isle of ANY supermarket should illustrate this point nicely). They expect that the FDA would keep the deadlier health threats out of their foods, and they just buy what they like to eat.

I'm really proud of you guys, those who have made a healthy choice to read labels - I have always done that - but if you are going to have an agency like the Food And Drug Administration, that's at least in theory there to protect the public's food and drug supply, then they should PROBABLY FUCKING DO THAT, NO?

If HFCS is a harmful as this study suggests, the FDA has taken things far more innocuous off the shelves in the past, and it's NOT unreasonable to suggest that HFCS be pulled from the market for reasons of national health.

True..........But, many of them use honey or brown sugar instead.

Also, how about using tortillas instead? Or quit wrapping things in cheap carbs altogether, and just carry your food in a tupperware container.

I don't even go down the isles at grocery stores anymore except to get granola and toiletries. Meats, veggies, dairy, juices and beer are all on the outside. Almost nothing in a box in my kart.

You can always tell when Avatard is losing an argument...he drops the feigned "I have a 160 IQ" attitude....you know, the whole "you should listen and believe me as I am SOOOOOOO much more intelligent than you...here, let me explain to you WHY I am so much smarter than you" and reverts to the "I'm gonna swear and throw a temper tantrum" mode. :lmao:

So basically your argument is that you are incapable of making a CHOICE on your own? You need the FDA or someone else to assume that RESPONSIBILITY for you?

Great! SO we're all super-smart eaters! Yay!

What about the other 99% of Americans? Should we just say "fuck 'em"?

Please remind me what the FDA is for, then.

Yeah, that's what I said.

:db:

See?

That's apparently the difference between you and I.

If I CHOOSE to go sit in the corner, I could manage it perfectly well on my own.

I guess you'd be standing around foaming at the mouth waiting for some Federal Agency to come and tell you it was safe first. :lmao:

Thats why you buy breads like pumperknickel rye, tastes far better than white, no HCFS, very very healthy.

Im sorry you refuse to monitor what you eat, instead of expecting the government to do so for you. Your whole arguement so far has been 'I have no willpower, and no interest to educate myself on the subject'...

Well, boo fucking hoo.

You know I agree with you on more political topics than not, so its nothing personal. But being ignorant about nutrition isnt an excuse to blame someone/something else. Americans (North Americans), make horrible food choices, despite all the information and tools available to them.

Again, its amount, not type. We know theres a half a cup of HFCS in soda, so stop fucking drinking it. If your a fat ass, its noones fault but your own.

Want a snack? Have a yogurt instead of a chocolate bar. Want a sandwich? Have it on pumperknickel, with real meat, not processed. A little low fat cheese and may, or even better, mustard. Instead of two whole eggs, have 3 with one yoke, and salsa instead of ketchup. Brown rice instead of white. Whole wheat pasta instead of white.

You have tons of options. 'Most Americans drink soda' isnt an excuse. Most Americans do a lot of shit that isnt good for them. If your not able to control yourself, dont blame anythign else but yourself.

You should read more carefully.

Your comprehension is rather low.

*Edit: Low brain performance can be a sign of lack of glucose in the brain. Maybe you should have something with a little table sugar in it.

I believe in the need for the FDA, and if a substance was harming people, the FDA should step in. But HFCS is still OK in moderation. It doesn't harm anyone UNLESS:

1) they eat some of it every meal, and
2) they don't exercise

If those 2 conditions apply to someone, they don't deserve help, IMO.

His comprehension is fine. Your pretty much saying, 'Im like a child, and need daddy to spoonfeed me with a soft plastic spoon'

Total reading comprehension FAIL.

:bash:

OK....let me ask you a simple and direct question then...take all "crap" out of the equation. I assume you'll be able to comprehend the question and reply without the vitriol?

Does the ultimate responsibility for what you CHOOSE to put into your mouth lie with you? Or does it lie with an Agency of the Government or anyone else?

More failure to read.

This is definately typical Avatard. 'I've lost all footing for my arguement, so i'll make dumb comments and pronounce my superiority'.

I'll say it simply. The problem isnt HFCS, the problem is that most North Americans are idiots.

I watch what I eat. I read labels. If the FDA can take Sodium Cyclamate off the market, they can do the same with HFCS. Otherwise, why have an FDA, if not to protect the public at large?

What you reading comprehension impaired granola eaters are missing, is that I ALREADY GET IT. I DON'T NEED ANYONE TO PROTECT ME. I READ LABELS.

BUT, if you are going to have an agency to protect the health of Americans, THEN IT SHOULD FUCKING DO THAT.

THIS SHIT IS BAD FOR YOU, AND SHOULD NOT BE IN THE HUMAN FOOD SUPPLY.

What is so hard to understand about that?

:bash:

Thats the thing man, its bad. We know that. It large amounts its deadly. We dont disagree.

So dont eat it in large amounts. If you choose wisely, fine and good. But for the people who dont, fuck em. Its not like we havent known soda is bad for over 20 years now. Its still the best selling drink in the world, so fuck them. Thwy know better and dont care, fuck them.

You bitch for the legalization of marijauna, saying you dont need uncle to look out for you. Then you want HFCS banned, because uncle needs to look out for you more.

If anyone watched the video I posted, he shows that fructose is the culprit here.

Ok...by that logic...let's get rid of cigarettes while we're at it.

They're HORRIBLE for you and EVERYONE with a brain in their head knows it.

You can walk into any convenience store in the country and buy cigarettes by the carton...where is the outrage over that Avatard? What EXACTLY is the difference?

The fact is, there is NO difference. It's a harmful product and people CHOOSE to consume it. Hell, a pack of cigarettes has a label essentially saying "consuming this product will kill you" and dumb fuckers STILL smoke them hand over fist.

No amount of Government "protection" is going to protect you from YOURSELF if you are unwilling to assume responsibility for protecting yourself.

I see your point, and I would argue that perhaps we need to take a more even approach here. You can't portend to protect, and not do so completely, lest you lull people into a false sense of security, because you offered them protection, and they entrusted their lives to you.

Either the government has to stop regulating Foods and Drugs, or they have to regulate it more fairly, and totally, lest some (read: most) folks get screwed.

Your whole attitude is one of "hey, we get it, we eat good - those who don't care, fuck 'em". Well, that's fine, I suppose, if the underlying understanding is, in fact, caveat emptor...but the USA has given us the FDA, and the Food Pyramid, and an RDA of vitamins and minerals, and suggested to everyone that the things in the food supply are safe to eat.

It would appear that HFCS helps flip the "fat switch", metabolically speaking. That makes it rather bad. I'd say easily as harmful as Sodium Cyclamate, which the FDA pulled, even though the entire known world uses it to sweeten their beverages with no apparent ill effects.

400 people every year die from Acetaminophen (Tylenol), but only a few died from Ephedra, and that got pulled.

The fact is, it's all about money. Not your health, not mine.

If the FDA is to continue, then this needs to be fixed. Fake regulation in the name of profit is not what we need.

Either let's regulate things according to safety, or it's caveat emptor...but not this. This is bullshit.

Got it now?

Labeling. Ever read the side of a pack of smokes?

I'll bite: Let's put a black box warning on all products with HFCS, ok?

Then people can make an informed purchase/use decision.

It's a harmful product and people CHOOSE to consume it. Hell, a pack of cigarettes has a label essentially saying "consuming this product will kill you" and dumb fuckers STILL smoke them hand over fist.

No amount of Government "protection" is going to protect you from YOURSELF if you are unwilling to assume responsibility for protecting yourself.

I think you left out the most relevant portion of what I wrote.

I wouldn't say I left it out. I essentially agreed with it.

Labeling. People can then choose to do what they want.

Its not about government protection, its about current governmental policies that ensure our market is flooded with cheap food that is very bad for you. Nobody is saying, well at least I'm not, that HFCS should be put on the illegal substance list.

Those policies can be changed to allow more farmers to focus on healthier foods than just motherfucking corn. Your stance seems to be that the government should work to ensure that we as a country manufacture the world's most unhealthy shit foods, make them extremely available so that they are ingrained in our culture, and just take a "fuck anyone who isn't smart enough to eat right" stance on it.

I took the following banter as a call for the banning of HFCS. :idk:

For your second paragraph:
I don't see Gregman taking that stance at all. All I see is him taking the stance that personal responsibility should take precedent over what the government "tells" you, or in this case, "doesn't tell" you.

I can't believe that you, of all people, disagree with that. :scratch:

I don't disagree with that at all, you're right. My beef is with the policies that make our supermarkets what they are, so to speak. I'm not for any total banning.

My contention earlier was that our supermarkets being what they are is as much the fault of the consumer as it is the government.

I disagree...

There is a wide variety of food grown or manufactured in this country....all widely distributed and readily available. Junk food...health food...processed food...whole food....EVERYTHING. As a consumer, I have the right to CHOOSE....and....the OBLIGATION to monitor the contents of whatever I choose to consume. That obligation belongs to no one but ME.

Is HFCS shit? Yes....and you know what? I KNOW that it is so I CHOOSE not to consume processed foods that contain it. Are foods high in fat shit? Yes....and you know what? I CHOOSE not to eat them. Are cigarettes shit? Yes...and you know what? I KNOW that they are so I CHOOSE not to smoke them. Those are just a few examples of readily available and widely warned against products that are perfectly legal and readily available.

I guess my stance is this....I get hung up on the disavowal of personal responsibility for choices that each of us have the freedom to make.

Its not always about choice, its about what you can afford.

I feel like this thread is going in circles.

Maybe, by rule I only read the first sentence of every post and respond based on that one sentence. :lol:

No seriously though, I must have missed the part where we talked about low priced junk food's effect on the lower class. What did we conclude?

We never reached a conclusion. :lol:

I said:
I understand that good food "seems" expensive but it is still far cheaper than it has ever been.

I hate hearing people bitch about how expensive food is when their kids are playing on their PSP's, wearing name brand clothing/shoes and then drive off in their over-priced SUV's.

I know you are probably talking about those that are struggling but how many of them would trade their new TV or their cable bill or their cigarettes for free-range chicken?

Edited to add ciggies for Gregman. :lol:

*I* concluded that it's a junk line of reasoning....:lol:

Seriously, food is a necessity....cigarettes are not...and I see PLENTY of what I assume to be "lower class" people smoking.

Again...it's all about personal choices...personal responsibility....allocate my resources to acquire healthier food?....or allocate my resources to acquire junk food and cigarettes? (as an example)....it's still a CHOICE.

My bad, my bad....I missed all that. Good points all.

Still, if government policy dictates what type of foods will be cheapest in America, then what is the problem with policies that make good foods cheaper and junk foods more expensive?

I mean, I'm just saying. If you're contending that government should not have a hand in agriculture then that's one thing. But since they already do, why not have them enforce healthier policies. After all, you pay for all those "poor, lazy, tobacco smoking, cable TV watching" people's healthcare right? Hell, even without "socialist health care", you still pay for them....so why not have good policy?

Plus million.

Fuck. What I'm trying to say is: The average American is a complete idiot who can not be trusted to make informed decisions. Seriously, have you guys been out in public lately? Scary shit. The policies of our agriculture department have the unintended side effect of making junk food type products insanely cheap. The price paid for that is the sheer landmass required for the corn used in those products, which is one of many reasons healthier foods are more expensive than a bag of Doritos and six pack of Pepsi.

These products are now an ingrained part of our culture, which leads me back to the point about people being complete idiots. When Joe Idiot sees 8 commercials for Coke and Cookies during his favorite Family Guy rerun everyday over and over again, well, that's what he's going to get.

Joe Idiot should have the CHOICE to put whatever type of food he wants in his body for whatever period of time. Absolutely. Pepsico should be allowed to crank out all the Pepsi and Chips they can make profit off of, no problem with that. What I am opposed to are Government policies who's end result are a junk food culture that Joe Idiot doesn't stand a chance of overcoming. Everyone is simply not intelligent enough to make rational informed decisions that may be in the face of what their TV tells them. While its easy to say, "well fuck those fat lazy idiots then", the truth is that they make up a significant percentage, if not he majority of our society and have a great effect on the rest of us.

Speaking of HFCS, you can buy kosher Coke this month--it's sweetened with sugar instead of HFCS. Has a green cap. And yes, it's still bad for you.

Damn, all this arguing when it's really quite simple (and I've already said it). It's basically laziness on the part of most people. Too lazy to work out. Too lazy to look at a label, too lazy to cook right, too lazy to care. They just figure it's too much work and they don't care about being healthy.

Should we institute a junk food tax so poor people will eat healthy? We all know that won't work as has been proven by the high taxes on cigs. People still smoke (even poor people) because they WANT to. Just like they WANT to eat junk. It tastes good and they love it.

Yes, HFCS causes obesity, but so does sugar and sitting on your ass doing nothing. We have gone from a society of manual labor to a society of cube farm rats. We NEED to exercise because we don't get the exercise we previously got from working.

Most fat people simply don't care and don't even try. They bitch that they're fat, but sit down at the buffet and stuff they're faces. They want someone to do everything for them. This is what we need to cure.

Our society has grown into a bunch of lazy fucks who want someone to do everything for them. They want the government to monitor this, or ban that. Here's an idea...you don't like something, don't fucking use it. If something makes you fat, don't eat or drink it. If something makes you cough, don't be around it. Take some fucking personal responsibility, but don't bitch about it until you've done everything you can to fix the situation. If people start picking foods without HFCS, manufacturers will quit using it. But people are lazy and don't fucking care. Period.

I have an impedance-style scale. Yes, I know they aren't all that accurate, but I use the same one and measure myself at the same time of day with same standards as you had listed. Maybe my % aren't exactly what it says, but it will show a trend, which is all I was really trying to point out and all I'm really looking for. If I want a truly accurate body fat measurement, I'll spend the money to get dipped in a tank, but it's not all that important to me as I'm not competing in anything.

But you would be wrong, because the government subsidizes the growth of corn. There's a reason why they're trying to shove it into every fucking orifice we have, they have shitloads of the crap.

Fixed:lol

Beautiful...end of discussion.

Apoc you cannot have it both ways....If you are for a Nationalized Healthcare system, then you have to control the sheep. You cannot say HFCS is OK, then pay for everyone's healthcare. That doesn't fly. So..in effect, Avatard has a more valid stance stating to pull it from the market since he is also for Nationalized Healthcare.

Me on the other hand, say fuck eat whatever you want (as long as the FDA keeps out toxic or cancer causing foods out), but I'm not paying for your healthcare bill, therefore get as fat as u like.

This was my point. Either the FDA controls everything, or not.

If it's NOT, and we instead go for "caveat emptor", then fine...but then I want my Ephedra, and my Sodium Cyclamate back.

Yes there is lots of it.

However...

It's how a free market works.

Im not American, so quite frankly, the healthcare arguement doesnt affect me. And im not against putting warning labels on HFCS, the problem is, people know the shit is unhealthy already. A warning wont make a difference.

But, banning it is not going to solve the obesity problem. Obese people, for the most part, have no desire to change themselves. You can pull it off the market, and make soda with sugar again. Its still not going to be good for them, and its not going to stop them from drinking the shit.

You know as well as I do, when you raise blood sugar levels, the body stores fat. Table sugar raises insulin levels, almost as quickly as HFCS does, and makes the body store fat. Taking in more calories then you can burn, causes the body to store fat. You can take HFCS off the market, its not going to change the fact that people are greedy, and will constantly overeat.

Agreed...cigarettes are a PERFECT example. The warning essentially reads "Consuming this product will KILL you"...and people still smoke the fucking things like there is no tomorrow.

Agreed...the source of the obesity problem does NOT lie with the food sources available in this country...it lies in the fact that people are not willing to take responsibility for themselves...for what they consume....and how much of it they consume.

The source of the problem is massive government subsidies on corn, making corn products cheap as hell. That's what allows them to put HFCS in damn near everything. The problem is not a nutritional one so much as a financial one.

Thank you. No more calls, please...we have a winner.

We are effectively subsidizing the erosion of public health. Seems like we're spending money only to make everyone sick, and cost us more money.

I'll say it again: Make Ethanol with it.

How about: Quit subsidizing it.

Not to change the subject....but....WHY?!

Why waste that much arable land growing something that is marginally above the break even point for EROEI? (And driving up food prices in the process as land that SHOULD be used to grow crops for human consumption is used to grow a bio source that requires almost as much energy to plant/maintain/harvest/refine as it yields after processing?)

shmike is exactly correct....corn based ethanol is NOT a viable alternative energy source....cut the subsidies on corn...go back to raising productive and economically viable crops.

Dude, that's exactly what I was saying. I thought we were supposed to be disagreeing...?

:wtfru:
I work in the food industry. Ethanol is a freaking joke. We saw prices go up over 200% 2 years ago. It was unreal. I've never seen anything like it in the 15 years I've been in this business. There will never be enough land to make ethanol anything viable unless someone figures out a way to condense it further.

Making ethanol causes farmers to rotate their crops to corn- thus causing a shortage on other crops. That in turn rises the price of wheat for example, which raises your bread pricing, pasta pricing.. I could go on and on.

I still don't understand how it's anyone else's fault for what we put in our bodies. No matter how anything is subsidized. I ate corn chips this afternoon. I just didn't eat the entire bag. Oh and even though I am extremely tired today I still walked 2 and 1/2 miles on my lunch hour. One of the few things I agree with Dr. Laura on is: Eat Less, Move more!

Why does it have to be a fault or a point of blame to change something for the better?

That is exactly my point. The only person responsible for what I eat is ME.

Why does it have to be the responsibility of or legislation by the government to change something for the better?

What about my 6 year old son, who's responsible for what he eats now....and how he learns to feed himself as an adult? Is it his responsibility?

Or figures out a way to grow mass quantities of sugar cane in North America. (Brazil is successful with ethanol as they ARE able to mass produce sugar cane.) Sugar cane ethanol yields a slightly better EROEI than corn based ethanol.

This!

And this!!

I have an 8 year old. As his MOTHER I am responsible for what he eats. ;) I am responsible for teaching him healthy eating habits too. It is not his responsibility, children would live off candy if we let them! :lol:

If you raised him on candy and McD's what do you think he's going to eat when he grows up and makes his own choices?

I'm not sure where this line of questioning is going. :lol: I think you already know the answer to that.

Children follow their parents examples. It is up to their parents to educate themselves on many many things - including the foods their children should eat. Adults need to take resposibility for themselves.

Are you implying that it is the role of Government to serve as "parents"...to teach a nation of adults how to eat? How to behave in public? To protect citizens from themselves like parents protect their children? (don't play in traffic...don't run with scissors, etc etc)

I don't get it...I can't BELIEVE that you....of all people...would suggest that?!

My point is that humans raised in a fastfood/candy/sugar culture who's parents never teach them any differently will most likely always eat shit food. Its not only because they're lazy or any number of names I've heard called here....its because they were raised that way and never questioned it. It is a perpetual cycle. As stated earlier, most of those who occupy society just aren't smart enough to think any differently that how they were raised. You get indoctrinated....and you stick to that until you die.

So, in order to reverse that ever growing trend it is necessary to end corn subsidies and do what we must to grow healthier foods that can monetarily compete with dollar cheeseburgers and bags of chips. We need to break out of the current unhealthy food commercial we're in. This can all be done without any freedom restrictions, but ultimately the govt would be responsible for reorganizing the structure of the Agriculture Dept.

No, apparently you don't get it. I'm not an anarchist and not once in this conversation have I said people who buy, eat or sell HFCS should do prison time.

You guys can't seem to tell the difference between a Government making laws that result in ruined lives to enforce religiously based moral beliefs and a Government working to make its populace healthier, stronger, and even more intelligent.

Government is necessary, humans simply aren't smart enough to live without direction. However, that direction can be given without it being an ultimatum resulting in severe punishment.

Understood....never said you did. I'm enjoying the conversation...I've no interest in attacking you. I just didn't/don't understand your reasoning. I mean, healthy food choices are readily available to anyone who wants them RIGHT NOW. Change nothing at all with corn subsidies or anything else and healthy food choices are still available right now.

You argue as if Joe Q. Public taking the initiative to better educate themselves on healthy food choices is an impossibility. My counter argument is WHY? Why must someone else assume this responsibility FOR them?

this a great find. astounding post.

/discussion
/thread

you people need to take the time and watch this. take the time and read any of the other evidences put forward by me and others. You guys are going around and around talking about what you think is the nutritional truths about HFCS and sugar. APPLES AND ORANGES, so drop it, and read up.

I said it several times now, i am still waiting for one fucking iota of evidence for anything backing up what you guys are claiming. This request conveniently gets glanced over.

If you want to make claims on here or anywhere on the internets, nobody fucking cares that you are health nut, you are ripped, and you work out or think you know something about nutrition, to the point where you can make population-wide observations. congrats to you, i applaud your efforts, i work out too. BUT you are not doctors that i am aware of, and you have not performed any sort of population research or experiments of your own, and published any finding.

The fact is, that HFCS is "bad" for you, AND is a major contributor to the obesity epidemic around the WORLD, for SO MANY REASONS, including that

A) it is addictive. The earlier you get it, the more prone you are to LIFE LONG addiction. You get it in the womb, it starts quite early.

B) it also tricks the brain into thinking you are not full, or that you are still hungry, even further expanding on the vicious circle.

C) it is everywhere. drop the sodas and the junk food "argument" already. It is hiding in 99% of all foods in the HEALTH FOOD aisle, masquerading as fucking HEALTH FOOD and everything in . Aforementioned Joe Idiot hasn't a chance because when he thinks he is making the right choices he is STILL getting fucked by uncle sam (FDA) and food corps.

This is just partly why it is not about choice. It's about fucking ultimate greed. It is a conspiracy and it is not so secret anymore. NEW COKE was the smoking gun in the 80's. (to quote the M.D. speaker in the video.)

Why are you against junk food being more expensive than healthy foods?

reduce government spending? blasphemy!

I'm sorry.

I meant; Pass more laws!

Yeah? 99%?

Prove it.

I eat 6 times a day...every day...and it's not in anything I eat. Trust me. I look.

Conspiracy? Really? I always wondered what happened to Baby Gorrilla/ZeroNetGain....I guess now I know. Do you have trouble seeing out from under that tin foil hat? :lol:

(And while I'm here I guess I should ask the obvious question....are you a fatty?)

Me?

I'm not.

I'm 100% in favor of putting a steep "stupid tax" on it just like cigarettes.

I understand your point, but if you only put out fruits, vegetables, lean meats and good fats in front of the sheep, that is all the sheep will eat. I know this may sound simplistic, but it's pure truth.

My opinion is to leave HFCS alone and quit Nationalizing AND subsidizing everything. Whenever the government does either, it fucks with the balance of things. We see this in all industries.

So is it that you're opposed to healthy foods being cheaper then?

You've lost me here, Chief....I've no idea what your asking...or more importantly, why. :lol:

Seriously, though...I asked you earlier...you think that the concept of Joe Q Public taking the initiative to investigate healthier eating options is an impossibility...why? And if Joe Q Public is NOT willing to assume that responsibility, who IS?

I'm just trying to understand your opposition to changing our fast food type culture.

Joe Q Public just isn't "smart" enough. I put smart in quotations because smart is an interchangeable world there, but most people simply don't have enough curiosity to change their way of thinking.

Pretty much everyone I know, myself included, grew up on junk food. We chugged sodas, we ate Doritos, got pizza everyday at lunch in school. The only nutrition info we ever received as children was the basic food groups and the goddamn food pyramid. That in turn is how we ate when we grew up and how our children under us are learning to eat... Cycle.

Intelligent, thinking, reasoning, responsible people do not need government intervention in their lives, they've got this under control. But unfortunately, intelligent people also tend to breed less indiscriminately and are therefore outnumbered by you know who. Those people need guidance in their lives to make intelligent decisions. Its why they go places that teach them a predetermined set of morals, its why they function well in cubicles, can't use a blinker when they turn, etc. etc. etc. Those people are brainwashed from a very early age by an overwhelming advertising campaign that champions the shit out of everything that is unhealthy. They are simply not going to one day decide there is something fishy going on with their food supply. Dude, just three days ago I had an argument with a guy saying that cigarettes are not bad for your health, I'm not kidding man...some people, fucking most people, aren't smart enough to get it. They have their preset mentality and they will stick with it until they die.

This forum is not representative of most people. On average, people who ride motorcycles and survive long enough to post on the internet about it are above average thinkers. You can easily see that in the debates that run this board, full of intelligent and wonderment on both sides.

Now, since I'm fucking tired of watching those fat motherfuckers walking around and being nasty in front of me, I believe the system needs to be investigated and changed to put more healthy food in front of people. 101lifts nailed it on the head, if you put the good foods in front of them then that's what they're going to eat. I'm highly opposed to freedom of choice restrictions for even the dumbest of our society, but that does not mean we should continue to blindly support a system that uses AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS to subsidize the main culprit in our fast food society, good ol' motherfucking corn.

There was an article recently detailing a schools attempt to change its lunches. (No I don't remember which school and I'm not bothering to look it up.)

The school began only offering healthy foods to the kids. Something I for one am FOR and always have been. The theory being that if that's all there is to eat, they will eat it right? Guess what? The kids started bringing their lunches!

You know what? I also know WAY TOO MANY intelligent people that are fat. It's not just about smarts. I also know people I don't consider intelligent (my ex) who are fat NOW but 9 years ago when I met him he exercised and ate healthy foods.

I personally know some pretty smart people that have had gastric bypass. Why? Because it's EASIER to have someone surgically shrink their stomach and force them to eat smaller meals rather than choosing to do it themselves. Gastric bypass is forced behavior modification and intelligent people do it and frame it as something else..

Oh and I lived on pizza and ice cream in high school too. That doesn't mean that's what I ate the rest of my life.

Sounds like all the more reason to eliminate corn subsidies and retool our agriculture system.

True story:

This is called cherry picking. A lot of people on here excel at this. Just because your personal experience is something different than the loads of data that is accessible, or you found one article that shows one outlier statistical anamoly, basically doesn't mean shit. It's the same thing with climate change.

Again, if you people bothered to read the abundant informative resources supplied in this thread alone, you would have seen that schools that removed soda machines and junk food had mean weight loss school wide.

An ex of mine had gastric bypass. She still lived and ate like a fat girl. She would preach to me about a little glaze on the fish I ordered but spent weekends living on nothing but beer and didn't think twice about it. People that get fat off HFCS have behavior issues and will find something else to get fat on, be it beer, sugar, or whatever.