see below.

No...if YOU bothered to read you'd understand that the point most of us are making is that (using the the example you cited above) soda and junk food machines being in schools has NOTHING to do with the REAL problem.

The REAL problem is that a lot of people are completely devoid of ANY personal accountability. Do junk food machines fire out a series of twinkies like a machine gun and down some fat kids gullet? NO. Does the soda machine grab people by the neck as they walk by and inject a can of soda down their throat? NO. People CHOOSE to go the vending machine, purchase the twinkies, and eat them. People CHOOSE to go the soda machine, purchase a can of soda and drink it.

The fact that the vending machines are there does not absolve people of the responsibility to not consume the products available for sale knowing that the majority of them are unhealthy.

Personal accountability....this argument begins and ends with personal accountability.

Only if you can't see in shades of grey.

How is it someone else's fault what you put in your mouth? We have free will, no one is forcing to you eat anything.

How is it a North Korean's fault they think Americans are 8 foot tall baby raping monsters?

Yeah, that's not even moderately similar.

There are people who blame everyone else for their health issues and there are people who chose to do something about it. Your government hasn't put you on some nutritional moratorium where you're FORCED to eat horrible foods every day and not move. The fact is, tons of people are in shape or at the very least, not fat, which proves that it's possible. There are options and we have every choice under the rainbow--the crux of our capitalistic society is choice, unlike that ridiculous analogy where people have no choice at all.

Brainwashing is brainwashing. Have you tuned into Nickelodeon or the Disney channel lately?

Whatever dude. You of all people should be against saving people from themselves. Just because your kid see's something on tv, doesnt mean you have to let them have it.

My uncles kid was born diabetic. He and his sister do not get unhealthy junk food, ever. They see it on TV all the time, but they dont cry and beg for it. Why? Because they were taught correctly from a young age.

Any parent with an obese kid should be shot in the face. Theres no reason for it.

Yes, and everyone else who is not fat also grew up on cartoons.

NK has no other options. We have every option under the sun. Stop blaming everyone else for your choices, nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you drink coke at every meal the way people in NK are shot for not wearing a Dear Leader pin every day. Not even close.

I'd be more than willing to agree with your argument if you were rallying against new laws and government control, but that's not what I'm debating in favor of.

All I'm debating for is an end to corn subsidies and an effort to reverse America's fast food culture.

What is so great about leaving the food system as is?

Yes thank you, I was aware of all that. There are varying levels of brainwashing, or whatever you want to call it.

You guys realize I'm not saying we should make it illegal to eat like shit right? I'm not even saying it should be illegal to feed your kid shit food.

Personal accountability.

Where are the parents? Don't want your kids to be "brain-washed" by the all powerful nationwide junk food conspiracy (tm)? TURN OFF THE FUCKING TV!!

Personal accountability.

Kids whining and asking for junk food because their friends are eating it or they saw it on TV? BE A FUCKING PARENT AND TEACH THEM ABOUT HEALTHIER FOOD CHOICES!!!

Personal accountability....See where I'm going with this? There is NOTHING grey about it. You either assume responsibility for yourself (and your kids).....or you don't. Period. And if you CHOOSE not to assume that responsibility, there is NO ONE to blame but yourself. Period.

Soooo....you just want to leave everything exact as-is right? Continue to produce ridiculous levels of corn, serve dollar cheeseburgers that weight 8 lbs...and all that jazz?

Mass production of heavily subsidized corn?

No. I don't like subsidies to begin with...they are counter productive. I particularly don't like subsidizing ineffective programs like corn based ethanol. It's an inferior product...marginally efficient...and produced at a HUGE cost of mis-used arable land.

Dollar cheese burgers that weigh 8 pounds and all that jazz?

Sure...why not? It's a free country. Why is that any more offensive than the ready availability of cigarettes? I don't CHOOSE to eat myself to death any more than I CHOOSE not to smoke myself to death.

I'm totally baffled by the cause and effect relationship you seem to have on this subject. I'm not flaming or attempting to be insulting...I'm genuinely curious....Just because these harmful foods are available doesn't obligate ANYONE to EAT them. Healthier choices are also just as readily available. Isn't it ultimately up to each individual to decide what they consume?

Its not about them being available, its about them being the cheapest and most abundant and then the US population being indoctrinated with constant advertising that encourages them indulge in said products. You have never met any poor people have you? :lol:

A free country? No dude, its not a free country, this is America, though that has little to do with the current debate.

You keep talking about what YOU choose to do. You choose not to smoke, you choose to eat healthy. Well that's great for you dude, you're intelligent enough to make independently formed decisions. Welcome to the minority.

Again, all I'm debating is for an end to corn subsidies and what amounts to government produced corn products from ethanol to HFCS. Not sure why there seems to be so much opposition to that.

I'm against my tax money being used to subsidize unhealthy food, but I take my own responsibility for my health instead of throwing up my arms and saying "it's not my fault!! the food industry is evil!!"

Awesome, me too. So what were we disagreeing about again?

Edit: Oh there it is, you added it on at the end there. :lol: So, industries can't be evil or do wrong, and to imply otherwise is to wear a tin foil hat is what you're saying?

Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying :skep:

Right on. At least we agree about the tax subsidies and need for personal responsibility though.

Wait... where's this place again? :dribble:

See? THIS is where our disagreement seems to stem from. You seem to be willing to absolve people of their RESPONSIBILITY to educate themselves...take care of themselves. I'm not.

I'm all for this....no corn subsidies? PERFECT. Where do I sign up?

You just probably have more hope for humanity than I do. I don't necessarily want to "absolve" anyone of responsibility (BTW, its the same word in caps or lowercase :lol:), I just don't think the majority is capable of making good decisions on food or just about anything else.

Once again I move to my default argument: Jon and Kate Plus 8 was a popular American TV show.

I just returned from trying 8 different kinds of cheescakes, 2 new cookie doughs, a choc cake, a choc cheesecake, and 9 or so different kinds of bagels! I must do it, it's part of my job!! :lol: But guess what? I was hungry when I left cause I ate tiny slivers of each! Had to have some baked chicken and black eyed peas for lunch! ;) :)

everything begins with choice.

No. Wrong. Choice is an illusion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npn4oH0AifU

The flaw I find in your argument is that you the seem to advocate the fact that while the majority is incapable of good decisions or rational thought, the government is. :skep:

Yeah...OK, Neo...

Why don't you run along and phone call yourself off the grid while us rational people have a grown up discussion, OK?

Jesus Christ, Kaneman...I'm starting to see what you mean about some people. :lol:

Huh? I'm not advocating more government control.

How do you go from "I want an end to corn subsidies and a break from fast food culture" to "I want more government control" ?

I think he's trying to lighten things up. Still, the quotes in the video make an interesting point when it comes to matters of addiction and indulgence.

From quotes like this:

There were other subtle statements as well but I'm not going to go digging to tell you what you said....

Are corn subsidies bullshit, yes, should they be reconsidered, definitely.......But that is only 20% of the problem. The other 80% is consumer laziness and/or ignorance. If you have half a brain, when you become an adult you will know how to eat properly. For those who DONT have half a brain, fuck em.

I mean serious......Does every food you buy HAVE to have tons of cheese, salt, sugar, and white flour?

If you can read well enough to finish high school, you can read the fucking ingrediants.

Homeslice. Watch that video that Sean posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

(Yes, it's long as hell, boring at times, but it's the final word on ALL of this, with all of the science checked backwards, and forwards to back it up)

It's not the fat, the cheese, the salt, or the flour...it's the fructose. It metabolizes very much like alcohol (ethanol), exclusively in the liver. It does not tell the brain it was fed (bypasses leptin), actually MAKING you hungry and is...in a word; TOXIC.

I also defy you to find more than 3 breads in your supermarket that DON'T have HFCS added. It's in nearly everything, and unless you become a fucking food freak, you'd be hard pressed to avoid this shit entirely.

Haven't watched the video yet.........But if fructose is so bad, where does that leave fruit? Are we supposed to quit eating fruit from now on? Please.

And none of the bread I buy has any HFCS. I either buy bakery stuff, (i.e. what the store made themselves), or one of the more expensive brand-name breads ($3 instead of $2, whoopdie-do) that uses honey, brown sugar, or rice syrup as the sweetener. And those are mainstream brands too, they're in almost every store.

I was being sarcastic, Einstein.

that is covered in the video also.

For the umpteenth time, stop trying to shoot down research you did not even read or watch.

I'm not asking they government to get involved, they are already involved. I'm advocating changing the way they do things. Don't see what's so bad about that or how it affects freedom at all..

Cool, thanks for letting me know that.

I ate a fourth of a slice of chocolate cheesecake just now!! GOD HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, because fruit (like most other whole, natural foods) has the "antidote" built-in. Watch the video, it explains it all.

Laugh all you want, the cellulite is on your thighs, not mine ;)

This thread is still going?

I just finished watching the video.....every last second of it.

He closes his presentation (which is very VERY convincing, by the way)..by saying:

"The FDA can't and won't regulate fructose. It's up to us." (~1:27:00)

Personal responsibility.....right?

Wrong! Exercise fixed that. ;) And don't forget to keep those portions small!

Pics, or there's cottage cheese.

Fiber.

That'd be great, if every time I tried to educate someone they didn't start screaming "COMMUNIST COMMUNIST" at me and trying to burn me alive.

Seriously, you can't teach people shit. I bet you most of America still thinks you can get AIDS by kissing.

Yes, in circles. I'm in the "personal responsibility" camp. What about you? :lol: