Need Brake Help
 

Ok, so I had the front brakes bled a few weeks ago, as many of you know, Im a rear braker. I know its bad, blah blah, I dont give a crap, its what works for me. I have been trying to adjust to using the front brakes more, thus having them bled since they were spongy as hell.

I've gone a couple hundred miles since I had them bled and they seemed to have been working fine, however today I went out for a lil 120 mile run and noticed they were spongy again. No big deal I thought, I just adjusted the dial on the lever in case someone had played with it again and dropped it down. Fast forward to this evening on my way home, I couldnt use my rear brake due to an ankle injury and upon trying to use my front brakes, they were almost nil! I had to engine brake all the way home.

I leave everything stock for the most part on my bike, so I have never replaced brake lines or played with any of that, and other than getting it serviced and lil things being done (like bleeding the brakes and changing the oil) I've never messed with it.

Can anyone tell me what the issue might be and how I might fix it? Do bike brakes function like cars and get leaks that could compromise the system and allow air in?

I've got a track day coming up this next weekend so I need to knock it out ASAP.

Thanks in advance for the assist.

Well, did you forget to put your wrist band on the res...?:wink:

Seriously,is the brake fluid low? Did they refill it after the brakes were bled? If not, when the bike is tipped into corners, it could be picking up air. How worn are your pads? Have you noticed any leaks at all around your calipers or by the master cylinder? Do this for me Rae-rae. Get a zip tie or two (or duct tape), go out to your bike, check the brake fluid, if it is okay. Pump the brake handle slowly until you have maximum pressure, hold it there and tie (tape) the lever back to the grip as far as you can and leave it like that over-night (6-8 hours) on the side stand with the wheel turned to the right. See if it doesn't improve and let me know. Love ya!

Fluid looks fine and they didnt mention adding to it. Just looking at the res, its full as normal. Not seen any leaks. Pads were fine after the bleeding and were working great. Due to my not using them much except at track days, they are practically new. Tho I looked again just in case. Full pads, little wear.

I tried pumping it for pressure and I think therein lies the problem. I get NO pressure. None at all. It doesnt even feel like Im getting any resistance.

Sounds like you got some air bubbles in there. I would try to rebleed.

Check your pads to see if you got anything on them and that they are good.

Do you have stainless lines?

Any pointers on how to bleed it myself without a bleeder? Pads are good, checked them again a few mins ago, perfect.

And nope, no stainless lines.

Get your hubby.

Hose to bottle of half empty water. Keep the hose end in the water and have someone hold the hose onto the brake caliber fitting.

Loosen fitting to allow fluid to flow.

Other person adds fluid to resi and pumps brakes to get fluid to flow out of the caliber. Add fluid to it's clear and has no bubbles in it.

Tighten fitting to stop flow. Pump brake to get pressure and zip tie brake lever back against the bar in full close.

Tap the line with a wrench of something from the caliber to the resi a few times.

Let the zip tie stay on overnight.

I would probably use brake fluid in the bottle instead of water, just incase communication is bad and it gets sucked up in there...

Thanks. Any ideas on how I might have gotten bubbles in there in the first place since they were just done?

yeah thats the better way to do it. Water is the cheap way. Just don't want it going to air.

It's really easy to leave air in the system. May have not been bled properly the first time and the air bubbles worked their way back down.

Try this, pump the lever fast and see if you can get the pressure to build. If you can get pressure, pump it til its hard and tie it back. Tap the lines. Leave over night.

If you can't get any pressure at the lever, it will be very difficult to bleed the brakes period. You can get a brake bleeder at HF or some of the auto parts stores. Cycle Gear stores are open on Sun as well. Call me tomorrow and I'll happily talk you and/or hubby through some ideas.

You can also do the syringe meathod and bleed from the caliper to master cylinder.

Also, if you still have no success. You could need a MC rebuild.

Thanks guys, much appreciated! Lon, I may call tomorrow, depends on if I mess with it. Father in Law is coming Monday to help out with some other stuff, said he'd bring his bleeder with him, I may just let him do it.

As much as I want to do it myself, my luck has been shitty lately as far as projects are going. Im afraid if I make the attempt, the damn bike will never start again. If there was a record for number of things I've broken, including on my person, I'd own it for the last couple of weeks. I cant even make a bowl of oatmeal successfully without dumping it all over the floor and myself. Then theres the ankle from tonight, oh, lets not forget Im not supposed to iron after the 3rd degree burns I gave myself last week, and if I manage to make it through a week without cutting every damn one of my fingers Im on a roll.

Don't forget to bleed the master itself...if you have a banjo bolt up there. I know they do on Yamahas.

Shhh.... don't say anything but I'm suspecting that whoever bled it before didn't do a very good job...keep that to yourself though, they may be friends of Rae-Rae's.:wink:

That's first on the list if the hubby /Rae wants to screw with it tomorrow. I'm going to have her put a clear line on the MC bleeder and try and bleed that first, then the right caliper, then the left- I believe that's how the lines run. Then it's the old pump it, tie it and leave it method of air removal. BTW Gas, I would be amazed if the MC was bad...:idk:

That was my first thought too. I've always bled my brakes with a piece of clear hose and someone that's smart enough to squeeze the brake lever when I asked.

Make sure the master is full and when there's no bubbles coming out of the caliper ( making sure the lever is to the bar after a few cycles) you should be good. Call Tigg...I've had a few beers and my description may be a bit vague..:lol:

I agree withthe bleeder valve on the MC. When I put new lines on my track bike (07 gsxr 750) I bled both calipers first and got a lot of air out but th elever was still ridiculously soft. Then i saw the bleeder valve up top. Couple runs with the mityvac and the lever was rock solid ;)

I didn't see this asked (posting mobile): when was the last time the fluid had been replaced? I used to go every few years without replacing fluid but at one point my rear brake was spongy like you indicated... Seems some water snuck into the system and effed with the fluid. I changed the fluid and everything worked fine. Now I change the brake fluid every spring.

Good point. I think her bike is only a few years old but I don't think this is the problem due to the sudden occurrence. I honestly believe that a less than thorough bleed job was done.

Aight guys. Im gonna attempt this project. Keep your fingers crossed I dont eff something up. Hubby said he'd help, and he's also going to teach me how to mess with spark plugs. I think I'll strip her all down today and work on those 2 things, and add some water wetter while Im at it.

Autozone has a poor mans brake bleeder, going to grab that, as well as just replace all the fluid thats in it, since I dont know if thats ever been done. (You never can tell when the shops service crap.) Be back later to let you know how it goes.

Oh, while im thinking about it, my odometer reads right at 13K, not including all my track days so if these things werent done at regular service, I am way past due on them anyway. (Cept the coolant part, that one I can handle.) :lol: Plugs have never been changed.

Take pictures, seriously this should be good! A woman trying to fix a bike! HA! Who woulda think it!

No really good luck and try not to spill brake fluid all over

How is it possible that your husband, a man, doesn't know how to do this?

:lol

and if you do spill brake fluid, clean that shit up immediately!!!!

And that is exactly the reason I dont mess with bleeding brakes.

Good luck. If your bike is anything like mine the sparkplugs will be a much bigger pain in the ass than bleeding the brakes. My plugs are buried under all kinds of stuff. Removing all of that took longer than it should take to do a brake fluid replacement.

True about the age - though I've seen shops fail to seal the brake res. completely, allowing moisture to get into the fluid that way (which may be why it came on all of the sudden, especially with the wet weather lately). Wonderin' if that's that happened instead of just old fluid?


Good luck with it either way - cover any painted surface within line-of-sight; that shit tends to lock in on anything it can ruin and run for it :lol:

Okay. *sigh* What a day.

In response to Tn Stud, did you know how to work on a bike when you'd only been riding a few months? Okay then, thats what I thought. Not to mention he knows I'd freak if something went badly wrong. He usually prefers to leave me alone and/or just let me take it to the shop. My Father in Law is my mechanic if needed.

Lon, THANK YOU! Gawd, how embarassing. Valuable lesson learned. However then I managed to let the res get empty while I was bleeding and had to go through the whole thing again. However, they are now fully functional, at least on the stands, I'll take her out later to street test. Really appreciate your assistance and patience. Smart woman my ass. Today I proved that not only do I have gray hair, apparently I have blond as well.

No pictures, ugh. Picture if you will, brake fluid in the eyes and everywhere else for that matter. Prompting me to get safety goggles. Damn sexy goggles too, thank ya vury much. It wasnt his fault, damn mighty vac.

Oh, then theres the coolant, I was so excited to have found the right hose I managed to spew coolant not only all over myself, but on the far side of the bike and across the garage. Think how sexy it was getting hosed off in the front yard if you will.

Spark plugs, no big deal, unless you count what a fucking bitch it is to get the damn air box out. However we got me some wickedly cool tools today that I now not only know how to use but made the job 100xs easier. And those went in without an issue, and I even learned how to do the spark plugs.

Currently he's blowing my bike. :wink: Getting the water out so I can add the new coolant. Almost done. Race plastics going on later this evening. Thanks again guys.

Lon, I love you. Dont tell your gf.

Little tip to help get air out of lines. Make sure your lines are going straight up into your reservoir , not comming out and then heading down or anything. The bumping around in the trailer on the way to the track will let the bubbles travel up the line and into the resevoir.

Every little bit helps.

Actually, yes. But my dad is a mechanic and I've worked on cars with him since I was about 8. It's the same concept between cars and bikes.

Anyway, sorry, that was rude. Not everyone knows how to work with their hands to the extent that I have been given knowledge to do so.

We've all been there. If not with bikes then with something else. ;)

Now pump the brake lever several times and tie it back to the grip. Leave it tied back overnight.

Roger.

Street test went perfect, front brakes work better than ever.

So you're trying to break the rear brake habit now then?

Yep, trying to. I use them alot at the track, but Im trying to get a better street habit going.

I'll loan you my M109-R for a week-end...it will break you of your rear brake habit in a hurry....or...it will just break YOU. My bike just laughs at the rear brake....good for a little trail braking...and that's about it. :lmao:

I've never had a bike that could stop from highway speeds with only the rear brake. Plus most of them are grabby and shitty-feeling compared to the front brake.

An 05 R6 with steel lines and Pazzo shorties is the shiznit........Never should have sold that bike.

Use them a lot at the track? What, the fronts? Only reason I don't use the rear on the track is because I don't think I have the coordination to, while doing all the other stuff too, lol. Besides, I'm doing just fine using front only. Don't use the rear on the street either.

Rae is weird like that. From the few times I have seen her on the street, it appeared engine braking was helping her as much as rear brake. She also rode well below her ability and that kept speed down and allowed the use of only rear from what I could tell.

Trip nailed it.

I dont ride aggessively enough on the street to require anything more than engine braking or rear braking.

As far as the track goes, I ride as hard as I can (sometimes harder than I should), hit the front brakes hard to set the suspension and dive into the turns, and occasionally use my rear brake with the front to get more of a hard stop (tho you have to be careful doing that or you will find your butt sucking up the seat when you start fishtailing), but on the streets I just dont ride like that.

:lol: reminds me of the rally last year when I stopped with the rear, fishtailed it and turned into the lodge. The guys fell out, thought I was going to go down. But I have enough awareness I guess you'd call it that even in a scary sitch or an emergency stop, I've never locked up got myself in trouble. Not saying it couldnt happen tho. :shrug:

i'd hate to not have a rear brake if i ran off the track. highsides hurt, i hear.

What fun is that?

It's good that you are learning the front, cause if you ever leave that light ass sportbike behind, you will need all the front you can grab on a big heavy bastard.

:lol: I think Im getting old...

Like your bike Trip?

Im curious, I've sat on the hubby's Mean Streak, and just moving it in the driveway I know theres no way in hell I'd want to ride it, but is the GS or Vstrom that much different?

Don't know about the strom, but the GS is much different in a lot of ways. It took me awhile to adjust to it. It's suspension with the telelever is much different, it squats instead of dives. The bike is a good 250 lbs heavier than the RR and it feels every bit of that under braking. I would let you ride it, but you are a midget and I can barely keep the bike upright at a stand still. I can't two foot this bike it is too tall.

:lol: I appreciate the thought, thats what counts right?

I've sat the kawi like ebbs has, I cant flat foot it, but Im comfortable with its weight. I may lean toward that when I get the money to change bikes. Right now I'd like to keep the GSXR for the track (after I get her all paid off) and get the dual sport for everyday riding. Im getting so slow on the streets these days I might need to look at cruisers. :wink:

You mean like the DRZ me and Ebbs have? Yeah, I don't post it much, but I still have mine. Kawasaki doesn't make a 400 right now. They make the KLR which is a 650 and a much more capable everyday bike than the 400 that me and Ebbs have. The DRZ is not really spectacular at anything, just mediocre in a lot of areas.

Mine is used for more hardcore dirt than regular DS/everydat riding. I am considering trading it ti someone to get a 250 motocross bike to use offroad only or another SV650.

Interesting...I have sat on the KLR 650, liked the feel of it, love to test one sometime, and well within my price range when I look at getting one. Thats what Im really leaning towards, the GS are just too expensive and the KLR looks to be just a bit more versatile than the Vstrom, tho I could be wrong.

KLR is a better offroad bike, strom is a better street bike. IMO of course. Although I have heard a lot of complaints about the new gen of the KLR. I hear some of them eat oil, like a quart of oil every tank of gas. They were talking about a class action lawsuit on ADV rider yesterday.

If you guys ever come up this way, we can take a trip out on the GS and DRZ to see if you like DSing. That's how Ebbs got sucked into the DRZ.

Cool, I'll take you up on that!

Hardcore my ass...

Royal Blue is pretty tough shit with all those fucking side by sides and ATVs destroying everything. It's not like motocross hardcore, but it is tough shit.

Yeah, it's alright. I'd give the advantage to Windrock though, as far as tough shit. Ruts are deeper and the hills are steeper in some points.

Hm....

Maybe I shouldn't sell the WR.

We just need to make some time to go ride. I know of another guy with a Honda that would love to go.

Tony and Laura always went to Royal Blue, so that's where I went. I would be up for Windrock someday. The DRZ is not really made to ride that shit and I am green in the dirt, so I usually get hurt at some point.

You say it likes it is a bad thing! :gary:

Perfect.

What are you doing this weekend?

:lol: Well, for me it is definitely out of character. I dont even know how ya'll ride those beasts! It feels all wrong n stuff.

have to talk to the wife, i think she has plans for me since I will be gone the next.

Mine is NOT a beast. She is curvy and pretty and agile (for a cruiser) and fast. I'll let ya take her for a spin (around the resort :lol: ).

Buildin' a fence...

Never ridden a KLR, but would probably agree. Did some riding on VERY loose gravel/dirt roads today and it was not fun. Strom wandered all over the damn place! I would like to get some knobby tires for it sometime and see how it handles dirt and gravel with better tires.

Just rev the hell out of it.

Awesome. Just in the parking lot Im thinking. Im am so not comfortable on anything other than an upright or forward lean! :lol:

Fwiw I spent a little money on suspension and a couple other upgrades. Ditched the lights, kickstand, etc and had a decent trail/track bike (with elect start)in my DRZ...

Anakee 2s or tourrances are good in between tires

It really depends on the bike.

I never thought I would ride any kind of sport bike... then I rode a friend's Vmax. Sweeeeet! :rockout:

How many days 'till the rally? 8?

Cool. I'll keep that in mind when the stock TrailWings wear out later this year.

Hey! There were a few us of posting up pictures a month or so ago working on our bikes.

Mine are a bitch, but it seems like everything on my bike is a bitch.

Glad you got your brakes figure out Rae.