Buell is done, finished, gone
 

http://www.jsonline.com/business/64352232.html

I usually don't post links but the gist is HD is dropping Buell and looks like maybe shutting it down. Loss of 180 jobs.

sucks to hear but not entirely unexpected. Wonder what will happen to mv now? Piaggio group maybe?

This makes me giggle like a schoolgirl. Although it sucks for the people losing their jobs.

I want to go laugh in DMG's face. So you attempted to run off Japanese bikes and now your precious Buell has failed.

Shame

I really wanted to see them succeed with this new engine (one that didn’t shake the bike across the room at idle)

I think it's funny as far as DMG is concerned.

Overall though I hate to hear it...kinda sux.

Erik has a video that looks like he is about to cry and glosses over the competitive advantage he was given over factory teams

www.buell.com

Erik won't let buell dissolve.

Harley may drop em, but he'll come through with something else. He always does..

It is a shame though. If they would have franchised them out with the Japanese dealers instead of keeping them in the Harley boutiques, they may have sold better.

Watch the video on www.buell.com, he is sticking with Harley.

Until he's no longer contractually obligated? Lol

On the plus side, my anniversary edition probably won't depreciate so much!

just means marko will have something new to bitch about lol


it actually sucks, i was loving the buells and what they stood for

wtf?

hmmm.........a buell chasis w/ a 'busa motor........

I wonder is Eric Buell has the means to continue the company on it's own feet.

Looks like MV will be the next to go, sucks for them. Harley should of never touched them.

Makes me want a 1125CR a lot more now.

Eric Buell will carry on the name somewhere else. How many times has aprilia been dropped now?

Buell dead?
 

Harley-Davidson Inc. said Thursday it will discontinue its Buell motorcycle brand and divest its recently acquired MV Agusta lineup as part of the company's long-term business strategy.

The news that Harley was dropping two lineups came as the struggling manufacturer also said that its third-quarter income fell 84% to $26.5 million, or 11 cents a share, from $166.5 million, or 71 cents a share a year ago.

The company had $1.12 billion in sales in the quarter, down 21% from $1.42 billion in the third quarter of 2008. Worldwide motorcycle sales at Harley dealers fell 21% during the third quarter compared with the same period in 2008. The company said it shipped 27% fewer motorcycles in the quarter.

In a news release, Harley said it would discontinue its Buell brand, based in East Troy, and divest the Italian MV Agusta brand. The Buell decision will result in the loss of about 80 manufacturing jobs in East Troy and about 100 salaried positions.

"The fact is we must focus both our effort and our investment on the Harley-Davidson brand, as we believe this provides an optimal path to sustained, meaningful long-term growth," CEO Keith Wandell said in the release.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/64352232.html

Yep pretty much but there is another thread already on it.

*edit* Well not anymore. :lol:

That is too bad.
Even though I had no intention of ever buying one, I thought they were cool bikes.

Hey...Eric
Might wanna make a few phone calls

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/15/r...-ducati-still/

looks like one of those gunpoint ''confessions'' third worlds are so fond of

Seems retarded to me. HD drops the only things that made them interesting to the sportbike/youngish crowd. Now they're going to focus on making more slow, overweight, over-accessorized, oil cooled bikes? :td:

you forgot overpriced. Maybe now victory will consider doing a sportsbike. I seriously doubt indian would

I got a feeling this is just the beginning; look for slashed Fim and Ama factory teams shortly. These are expenses few can continue to have in the face of plummeting sales and profits.

If you want to see what happens in worldwide economic downturn, look back to the late 70's and early 80's which heralded the demise of the British motorcycle industry and the pullback of the Europeans; Ducati stopped importing to the US, Laverda staggered on for a couple of years and many marques disappeared altogether.

Buell is just a first-rounder, Mv may find a daddy warbucks, but my bet is that Moto Guzzi will go, at least from the US; Benelli will likely get shucked off by it's Indonesian benefactor and won't likely find a buyer;look for CanAm (the folks that brought us the Spyder) to go away.....

anybody else think this is just the start or things?

Honda still has a lot of new 07s on the floor.

They just happen to have a big parent company to eat the losses.

Erik Buell just needs to plead to the government like Harley Davidson did in the 80's to save their asses from backrupcy by taxing the shit out of all imported bikes. Funny how Harley can't remember their roots on this one just as Buell starts to show real promise for the future with their new line up.

If you aren't familar with how the government saved Harley ass you can read more about it here. Funny how over priced HDs are now compared to Jap bikes...wonder if that tarriff is still in place?

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa032.html

From the article: "The decision to drop Buell comes only a month after a Buell 1125R bike beat Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki motorcycles to win the coveted American Motorcycle Association's sport bike championship Sept. 8 in New Jersey. It was the first pro championship for an American motorcycle manufacturer since 1986 and the first for Buell."

Is there anything Harley Davidson on the 1125R? What does Buell need from Harley Davidson? Dealerships for sales and service.

Too bad Eric doesn't know that this is the best thing to happen to him. He should distance himself from Harley Davidson, which caters to aging baby-boomers (but not me).

Maybe he should become the first American motorcycle company to sell motorcycles and parts directly off the internet. Or at least join with dealerships from a smaller company with a similar sporty engine, like Aprilia or Ducati.

Buell is embedded too tightly with HD to be worth selling. Believe me, HD would sell it if they thought they could.

People have been saying "The latest Buell bikes show real potential" for years now. Potential doesn't pay the bills. Sales matter and apparently they weren't selling.

It's sadly hilarious that DMG rigged the DSB rules to favor the Buells, they win the championship and now they are done. Maybe they'll create a stock class for Electro-glides?

probably wipe out the whole dsb class for a xr1200 one make series

I suspect what Buell needs from H-D is cash. I doubt they are making a profit. What are the odds of them successfully setting up their own manufacturing and dealership network when they can't make money without having to do those things?

Additionally, with the state the motorcycle business is in right now, how many people are lining up to spend the cash necessary to start carrying Buell when H-D can't manage to sell the bikes?

Most manufacturers wouldn't want to go to direct internet sales. Dealers are great for a number of reasons, but the ability for a customer to touch and sit on a bike is lost over the internet. Also lost is dealers paying for inventory to exist. When inventory sits on a manufacturers floor nobody is paying for it. The last issue is nobody has yet figured out how to perform service and warranty work over the internet.

I think Buell will do something to come back on its own. I doubt Eric will let it completely die.

Dude you don't even know... I think this is going to completely devistate Marko. He is going to need a big "biz hug".

I think its just the start of things. Something more will happen.

I don't think there is any hd on the new 1125. Marko will know for sure.

I agree. I think Eric will now be able to direct design where ever he wants. Like he did with the 1125.

Erik Buell can't go anywhere else with his name on it or with any of the designs Buell created. Hell, Harley can sue the pants off of him if he tried to pawn off any of his ideas anywhere else that he created for Buell. Harley owns his designs and his name. HD will have to get paid to release any of this to anyone including Erik Buell. Apparently there were no worthy buyers, so it's gone.

Buell is dead in the water until Harley says so.

Unless HD allows Eric to buy out HD from the name sakes

yep, he has to chalk up a bunch of cash to get Buell back and all the crap that comes with it. No one wants to pay their price because the brand isn't worth it at this point. It has no dealers or service centers besides Harley. Harley still has to deal with the warranties. Whoever buys the name, has to deal with all that shit and no one wants that shit right now. You may see a remergence later after parts issues and warranty service are no longer on the plate and they can start brand new without having to deal with these bikes at all, but that may be years down the road.

I dont know man. There is way too much passion in Erik Buell to let this go by the wasteside. This has been his baby from day one.

I wont admit to knowing it all but marko has told me about it. Has a book on it. I just do see Eric calling this quits.

besides you are speaking from speculation. Nobody here knows the contracts between buell and hd.

He isn't calling it quits, he is working for Harley now. He said it himself. I don't see him finding a financial backer to save what's left of Buell without the Harley network. The amount of cash he needs to go it alone to keep the old line going would be huge. He would have to recreate most of the dealer network and have the cash to do all the warranty shit. It's a ton of fucking money that he just doesn't have without harley. That's what took him from a boutique bike builder to what Buell is now, Harley money.

HD owns a majority stake in the Buell name/brand/designs. He is stuck. HD effectively owns everything he did with that brand including the name. He would have to start from complete scratch.

He could offer them a % of profits if they allow him to continue on their own. Release a few trademarks and patents, provide a small(proportionately) amount of cash for start up costs.... He could be on his way unless HD fears that he could never be profitable alone. Which sounds like the reason they are shutting them down. He couldn't make money even with HD backing.

He'd have to have a lot of private investors backing him for a while. Maybe the AMA will keep him afloat.... :lol

Yeah who knows... I sure hope that Eric figures something out. I don't want to see such a great platform fall aways just because of this crappy economy.

I think for the time being, it's gone. There is no getting around that without Harley. Erik will probably work over there and hope that this economy can improve to the point where they can have a resurrection of the brand. I don't think you will see it around for at least 10 years though, if not more.

I'll say you will probably see some new Harley models with Buell influence or design going forward though.

I think you're right

Isn't 10 years the magic required number for MFG to keep parts on a shelf?

Yep, this has been rumored for the last few weeks:

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news...omment-page-1/

XR1200 racing strikes me as very close to NASCAR for motorcycles...

didnt know i was that close to the mark, lol. actually bsb has an XR support series laid in for next year which is why i woulnd be surprised if dmg put one in as well.

By Gary Pinchin -
British Superbikes
02 October 2009 15:13


The much talked-about Harley-Davidson XR1200 series will thunder into life at BSB meetings next year.

After almost a year of development with Harris Performance, registrations have opened for next year’s ten-race, eight event series.

Competing in the series costs £13,000, including the cost of the bike, a full race kit developed by Harris and a Dunlop tyre deal and already many of the 34-strong Harley UK dealers have shown an interest in running bikes.

“Our plans to launch this race series in 2009 were perhaps a little ambitious given the short lead time available and the impact of the global recession,” said Harley-Davidson Europe’s Greg Willis.

“However, the delay has given us the opportunity to work with Harris Performance to develop a really exciting race package for the XR1200.

The feedback we’ve received from development riders (including Niall Mackenzie and Sean Emmett) has been very positive and the dealer support that we’ve received is also extremely encouraging.”

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload...200_Action.jpg

As ghey as an HD series sounds, being able to race against identical machines on identical tires for an entire season for @ $21k?

Not a bad deal.

That was my thought, that sounds like a smoking hot deal to enter an 8 race deal with the cost of the bike, race kit, and tire deal included.

Now that Buell is gone, the XR1200 series is really the only chance DMG has to get Harley fans to the races. There's little doubt in my mind that it will happen next year. And at that price point, the field should be full.

Damn shame.

agreed

I can only say, holy $hit.

Buell reminds me of Saturn....a company that was much more than the products they sold. Long live the legend....

Any chance that this is part of a larger plan to trim a loosing company and at the same time have an HD branded sportbike? It wouldnt surprise me to hear that harley starts a sport line with buell tech/designs. Also I doubt that Erik Buell even has the rights to his own name anymore, i'm sure that Harley bought him out a long time ago.

HD has owned 100% of Buell since 1998. He does not have the rights to his own name.

harley davidson VR1125. there will only be fifty and you'll only be able to buy it in poland

I wonder what will happen as far as aftermarket and parts availability.

tom

After market has always been really shitty.

And so has parts availability...
I say after market stays the same, and oem gets harder and harder to find.

Dunno where this is, but at that price, I don't care how ugly it is.

I see Buell/HD salesmen do have a sense of humor. :lol

Humm as already mentioned maybe they will resurface as a HD sportbike instead of a Buell.

Not sure if this has been posted yet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5i7JDNACtI

I saw a buell dealership in WI has the 1125R's on sale for $3,995

If that's the case I'm buying one !! :lol:

Pack you bags...

http://www.ukeshd.com/

Well it does say "starting at" so I'll call and if the bike is brand new for $3995 I'll pick one up but I seriously doubt it.

However I will check local dealers to see if they match $$ first. :lol:

I won't be back in the US until April, but if there are still deals like that around, I'll buy at least one.

Would you buy a Buick or Mercury sports car?

This is the exact reason why Toyota created Lexus and Honda created Acura. They couldn't sell luxury cars because they were perceived to be low or mid range car makers so they had to create new brands. HD will need to do something similar if they ever want to get into sport bikes.

You mean like create a new brand to sell sportbikes run by an ex-racer?

local place supposedly has ANY buell for $7k

If they made them and they were worth a shit I would sure as hell consider one at around ~40% of MSRP.

at those prices buy 2, 1 to ride adn 1 for parts.........lol

I believe it was actually 83% or something like that.... its not 100%

That's what I'm thinking! No freakin way.

that explains why my local HD dealership dropped the Buells from their floor lineup and no longer sell parts.

hmmm......guy called local HD place thats having the firesale and they said they'd carry parts for the next 7 yrs.........

if you told me you didnt pop a massive woodie any time you saw a big block gsx id call you a fucking liar

I doubt the dealers knew. I don't think Erik knew until they brought him into HR one morning.

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/20...n-to-erik.html



We just got off the phone with Harley spokesperson Paul James. According to him, Erik Buell is in ongoing discussions with Harley about taking on an advisory roll at The Motor Company, in which capacity he'll contribute to future product design. The rest of Buell's 180 employees won't be so lucky, they'll be out on the street as of December 18, the day the Buell plant shuts down. This news will come as a shock to them, like the rest of us, they only found out about Harley killing Buell this morning.



Paul didn't have Buell sales figures to hand and we don't believe they're published by Harley, but he suggested that this year's sales were down compared to last's about the same percentage as Harley's better-than-industry-average 21.3 percent figure. Indeed, Harley isn't killing Buell because it's unprofitable, it's killing Buell because it wants to invest every last penny back into Harley to save that brand from possible failure. It's not actually sales that are Harley's biggest problem -- although they can't help -- it's the troubled finance wing. Harley's practice of giving sub-prime motorcycle loans to unsuitable candidates has bit the company in its proverbial ass, forcing Harley to borrow $1 billion in operating capitol at 15%. That's only enough money to see it through to the end of the year. So far this year, revenue at Harley is only down 17 percent, yet net income has fallen 71.4 percent.



The decision was made to shutter rather than sell Buell because it's product range and distribution network are so heavily dependent on its parent company, that there's relatively little value in the company that could be transferred to a new owner.



Asked how Harley intends to replace the customers that will now be lost to Buell's competitors and how Harley intends to expand its appeal to post Boomer generations, Paul is insistent that Harley's current range already has the ability to appeal to that audience, saying, "Keep in mind, in the U.S., H-D holds the number two share position overall (all size bikes) among young adults 35 and younger and we are the share leader in heavyweight motorcycles among this group, so we know our motorcycles appeal to young adults.



"We will continue to develop products under the Harley-Davidson brand that appeal to riders under 35 years old. That said - and while I can't discuss the specifics of future product plans - you can expect us to focus on high-impact product introductions that attract new riders and help define the future of motorcycling. We are not ruling anything in or out...we simply will pursue it through the Harley-Davidson brand."

Wes Siler. October 15, 2009 — Permalink

Good point. I think the local guy mentioned that it just got too damn expensive to carry the franchise.

Well that's interesting

Sales (MRQ) vs Qtr. 1 Yr. Ago -18.02
Sales (TTM) vs TTM 1 Yr. Ago -13.25
Sales - 5 Yr. Growth Rate 4.02
EPS (MRQ) vs Qtr. 1 Yr. Ago -84.13
EPS (TTM) vs TTM 1 Yr. Ago -67.85
EPS - 5 Yr. Growth Rate 2.24

So they're down slightly and losing their shirt. Their gross margins are still higher than the industry average. Considering that so much of their sales is high-margin accessories (t-shirts and chrome junk), I would guess that the drop in earnings is not in line with the drop in sales revenue.

I think if Buell were earning money for them, they would keep the brand and just suspend R&D and marketing (inc racing). That tells me it's a money losing operation.

Well since that's not what we're talking about probably not but...

If I was smart enough to know it was a rebadged Buell and Erik Buell was still overseeing it I might. :idk:

Exactly. HD took the first step in getting into the sportbike market: create (or buy) a brand. They just failed to follow up on all the other details: go racing, use or develop competitive technology, etc...

I have no idea what a big block gsx is but I'm sure it's very erotic. ;)

Ah, a 40 year old muscle car. Nice.

Interesting take from the Soup.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/...xpldeleted.htm

Nice, that pretty much describes how I feel about this to a T

An truth to the fact that HD wand Erik Buell to stay on as consultant because they are hoping to move the xr1200 into sportbike teritory?

I like the XR, but that would be one hell of a move for that bike. If they want to do that ideally they should just bolt the XR motor in to an XB12R chassis.

HD already has all the tooling and equiptment to make the buells, woulnt be too hard of a stretch of the imagination to see them using the already designed and produced buells used.

And eliminate the Rotax engine no doubt.

I can't wait to see what this brings. The only Harleys that have been remotely attractive to me haven't had many HD parts. How many gixxer riders do they honestly think they can capture with low horsepower heavyweight twins?

who says they are gnna go after zuk sales? Maybe take a crack at bmw with an adventure sportster :lol:

How about a vrod based sport bike?

Google "Roehr". Conventional wisdom is that the engine's too heavy.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/16/438...irst-Ride.aspx

and sloooow reving.

Keep spewing and reproducing ignorance people....

whats ignorant here? i rode it. it revs slooooooow. whole bike feels maybe 600 fast at best

Went to the dealer today. 1125Rs are sellin for $5999. not bad

Just because you don't like the truth, doesn't mean it's ignorance. What exactly don't you agree with?

Keep drinking kool-aid

How much were they before? If I can get something for a good deal around here I woul dpick one up for either a commuter or a track bike.

Tom

Well, MSRP is $12,499. For the longest time I was seeing '08s for $8,999. Wonder which year is going for $5,999? They did have some significant changes for '09.

i wouldnt touch the early one for free. not with what micah from af1 had to say about it boiling gas on the dyno.

They are '09s going for $5999. Brand new