Two Wheel Fix - stainless steel oil filters

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stainless steel oil filters

Was discussing this on another forum, just wondering what you guys thought pros or cons.

http://pcracingusa.com/store/index.php?cPath=13

We use the same basic idea on tactical fighter aircraft. If it's good enough to keep a F-16 (32,000 lbs thrust), then it's probably gonna be good for my 120 hp motorcycle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSP1 (Post 335758)

We use the same basic idea on tactical fighter aircraft. If it's good enough to keep a F-16 (32,000 lbs thrust), then it's probably gonna be good for my 120 hp motorcycle.

What do you guys use to clean them? I would be leary of some wather or soap residue being left behind and if that would do any damage.

I also wonder how cost effective they are compared to paper.

So these are reusable? I would think to clean them, one would use a brake parts cleaner or a throttle body cleaner

I'm this --> <-- close to buying some for my dirtbikes. It's a PAIN to have to buy a small $4 paper filter every oil change.(it's annoying when that oil change comes after every 2nd ride)

As for cleaning, I've read you can take an airhose to em and blow em out on a rag or something. I think all you really need to see is if there's any major metal or debris in it. The old film of oil shouldn't hurt, since technically you don't drain every once out of the motor anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommymac (Post 335760)

What do you guys use to clean them? I would be leary of some wather or soap residue being left behind and if that would do any damage.

I also wonder how cost effective they are compared to paper.

Cleaning oil filters is out of our hands. But they could be cleaned with something like brake parts cleaner or kerosene.

With a stainless steel filter, you buy only one filter and then clean it every time you would change the paper filter. $100 for one filter ever vs whatever a paper filter costs every time you change the filter. In the long run the stainless filters cost less and guarantee better filtration and better oil flow.

This is probably going on the bikes the next oil change I do.

GM should be chiming in anytime...

If I planned on keeping anything forever they'd be worth it... Since I don't... They're not.

The original VW Bugs used a screen to filter oil instead of a paper filter, but the mesh looked like window screen. Plus, they used an oil-bath to filter the air instead of a paper filter.

OSP is right on. I have done a ton of research on these and run them on all my bikes. I run K&P filters. Look them up. I'm on my phone so cut me some slack.

Yes you clean them with brake clean and an air hose.

I have the pics and data to back it up, you just have to wait till later. I'll post what I found.

Bottom line is this

They filter better than what the paper guys "claim".

The paper efficiancy drops off huge after few miles.

The ss filters flow 10 times better. Certainly its all only gg to flow at the rate ur oil pump puts out, however, that won't even happen if the paper filter clogs. Untill... That paper pos goes into bypass to relieve the excessive psi. Then that oil isn't even being filtered. With the ss flows and the fact their efficiancy doesn't drop off, this isn't an issue. Big big plus.

As far as price. They cost about $125. A k&n is about $14. So basically after 9 changes. Your in payback, on top of better filtration.

Worried about not using it completely? Don't worry, u cud resell it. Or like me, I just took them off on sale of the old bike, got lucky cause they work on the new bikes too.

Oh and I have a guy you can buy them from. I'll post his info later as well.

I keep not buying this and I'm not sure why... I guess that like OSP I don't plan to keep a bike long enough to make it worth while. Of course that's stupid considering that my last 4 or 5 bikes used the same filter!:lol: Not to mention that it's my understanding that most Japanese bikes can use the same filter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gas Man (Post 335933)

Worried about not using it completely? Don't worry, u cud resell it. Or like me, I just took them off on sale of the old bike, got lucky cause they work on the new bikes too.

Oh and I have a guy you can buy them from. I'll post his info later as well.

Noticed it's almost one-size-fits-all for sportbikes. Unless there are variations of the PCS1 that aren't clear on the website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fasternyou929 (Post 335943)

Noticed it's almost one-size-fits-all for sportbikes. Unless there are variations of the PCS1 that aren't clear on the website.

Hey that's what I said turkey!!!:lol::lol::lol:

To add on to what GM said, they also filter cold oil better according to the manufacturer. So they're also less likely to by-pass on start up when you need it most.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 335942)

Exactly as said. The filters can be cross referenced. This is because the filters, filter better and flows better. Some of this idea type will be explained shortly on my Evo vs Twin Cam motors for HDs, below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmall (Post 335953)

To add on to what GM said, they also filter cold oil better according to the manufacturer. So they're also less likely to by-pass on start up when you need it most.

True because of higher PSI the filter goes to by-pass. This is not an issue on the SS filters cause they flow better and more consistantly.

I'm going to post up a thread I worked on back in June for another forum...

About EVO vs Twin Cam oil filters.

I always knew there was a difference as decribed but it bugged me when HD came out with their new oil filter that works on both motors. So I started into my homework.

topic that came up on another forum... the appropriate oil filter for the correct application. For BDB, some big dog owners have twin cam harleys, and we have had the K&N 170 vs 171 debate. I also include the notorious K&P in my research that I will start to post now...
It's going to get long... hopefully worth your time...

I'm always up for a debate, to be educated, and/or learn something new.

The cold facts to the best of my knowledge... please correct or narrow down better if you know better. I'm new to TC motors

TC motors use a 5 micron filter due to their oil misters. A particle bigger could possibly clog the mister.

TC motors are a high pressure low volume oil system

TC paper oil filters that are more restrictive causing less oil gallons per min usually contain a bypass and a anti-drain back valve.

Evo motors only need 30 micron filtering

Evo motors are a low pressure high volume oil system

Evo paper oil filters don't have the anti-drain back valve and it can cause some damage if present (un sure what damage or how). They also don't have oil bypassing.

Ok I believe that covers the differences between the 2 motors, their oiling systems and which filter specs are on the motor.

I believe the idea is that if you put a TC filter on a EVO. At idle the evo wouldn't be able to push oil thru the TC filter restriction so the oil would simply bypass the oil filter = bad.

If you put a EVO filter on a TC. It simply doesn't filter enough for the oil misters.

Last year I remember HD doing something new with their oil filters. For years HD had a EVO filter and a TC filter due to the differences as I stated above.

Here's the EVO only filter as listed on the HD site. I picked a random EVO bike (fat boy).
EVO Filter Part #63805-80A

Stating:

Quote:

Genuine H-D® Spin-On Oil Filters consist of cured resin impregnated paper which removes harmful foreign particles from the oil. Metal end caps and thermal setting adhesive provide positive seals, preventing bypassing of contaminant-laden oil. Made in the U.S.A

Then as I said there was a TC filter. However, I can no longer link that from HD cause they came out with their new filter (using my Ultra as an example)
SuperPremium Oil Filters Part #63731-99A

Stating:

Quote:

Utilizing advances in synthetic media technology, the SuperPremium Oil Filters are TEST-CERTIFIED to provide filtration to retain dust, soot and other solid matter with low internal pressure relief and anti-drain back valves. Available in black or chrome.

This product is available in multiple variations. Be sure to look for the one that fits the specific model and year of your motorcycle.

Fits all '99-later Twin Cam and Evolution models and available as an upgrade for any motorcycle that requires Oil Filter P/N 63796-77A, 63805-80A, 63812-90 or 63813-90.

An upgrade for the EVO filter I listed above.

How can this be? What is being sacrificed?

Is it allowing oil to bypass the filter via the "low internal pressure relief" when applied to a EVO and its low pressure idle? Causing said oil to not be filtered?

Did they sacrifice the 5 micron filter rating to allow a EVO to push thru it with its low pressure oil system? I highly doubt this... cause that would death sentance the TC then.

Does the new superior filter have a 5 micron rating?

What about the anti-drain back valve in this new superior filter? Wouldn't that do damage (what ever damage that is) to the evo?

Then if that wasn't enough to twizzler your mind. I brought into play the K&P filters. A stainless steel cleanable & re-usable oil filter. K&P states (even updated to include 2009) that the TC & EVO run the same filter, part # S4.

K&P Techinical Highlights

States many things including items below relevant to this discussion:

Quote:

Superior ASTMF316 filtration performance

7 times the flow of comparable paper oil filters

Magnetic Prefiltering

Progressive rate bypass combined with high flow characteristics of the filter media avoids unfiltered oil bypassing the filter during cold startup and high rpm

A one inch square of this material flows an incredible 1.9 gallons of oil per minute at only 1 PSI pump pressure.

I wonder what the conversion of that ASTM316 filtration is into micron ratings.
If it is lacking in micron rating is it made up with high flow capacity there for less likely to bypass and the magnetic prefiltering?
Does it contain or need a device for the anti-drain back?

Then we can throw in the other popular name... K&N

K&N Oil Filters Generic Specs

The K&N 170 is for the EVO motors

Stating very little other than:

Quote:

Anti Drain Back Valve: No

are ‘TUV’ product endorsed and ‘TUV’ factory production monitored. This means every K&N oil filter is equal to or will exceed all OEM specifications. Our filters contain a modern synthetic filter media, designed for ultimate flow with less pressure drop, yet engineered for outstanding filtration to meet or exceed all OEM specifications.

Cross Referenced to HD #6379677A & 6380580A (the same EVO # I listed above)

The K&N 171 is for the TC motors

Stating very little here as well:

Quote:

Anti Drain Back Valve: Yes

are ‘TUV’ product endorsed and ‘TUV’ factory production monitored. This means every K&N oil filter is equal to or will exceed all OEM specifications. Our filters contain a modern synthetic filter media, designed for ultimate flow with less pressure drop, yet engineered for outstanding filtration to meet or exceed all OEM specifications.

Cross Referenced to HD 6373199, 6373199A (same HD super filter listed above), 6379677A, 6379899, 6379899A, 6380580A
(the same EVO # I listed above)

PSI Relief Valve: 14.65

So the 171 says you can then use it on both motors. The 171 is also the only one that states it has a PSI relief valve. What about micron ratings?

WOW... talk about brain twisting...

How is HD able to run one filter for both motors?
Same goes for K&P?
Why is it that K&N still lists 2 different oil filter part numbers but cross reference they connect like the HD super filter?

That means that all three companies list the same filter for both motors and list no micron ratings or micron rating different requirements for the motors.

Being I have K&P filters on both motors (same number as indicated above), I have emailed K&P to ask for some clarification on their S4 working on both motors. I will let you know what they reply with.

Thoughts?
Insights?
Knowledge?
Links?
Confusion?

Well here's the email I sent to K&P.

Quote:

Hello,
I am a many time repeat customer. I have purchase 3 or 4 of your filters for my many bikes in the past years, all being for EVOs and Sporty EVOs. Recently I purchased another S4 for my 2009 Ultra Classic with the 96CI twin cam. Now I have a gentleman on a HD forum saying that your filter doesn't filter enough for the motors misters. That the TC needs a 5 micron filtering. Anything higher will clog the misters and lead to motor problems.

I know that the EVOs at idle don't have a enough oil psi to push thru 5 micron rating filter media. So on a paper filter does the filter go into bypass? On the K&P for an evo, if it has TC filtering, how does it work with the low psi evo? Or does the S4 not filter down to 5 micron and therefor not nessicarly qualify for the twin cam micron requirement?

Can you please provide me with more information on this technical question. Something I can use to support your great product and settle my worries about filtration on my new motor.

I noticed that HD put out a TC/EVO filter called their Super Prem Filter. I'm not sure how they were able to do so. What did they sacrifice to achieve a filter that works on both applications? Is that sacrifice similar or the same for the K&P?

Sorry for so many questions but I'm trying to wrap my head around this. I appreciate your time and consideration on this matter, as a loyal customer.

Good day,
-Chris

The response from K&P

Quote:

Hi Chris,
Micron rating discussions are often bantered about like fish stories. There
can be a lot of different versions presented of what is really happening.

We prefer the ASTM tests when measuring the particle size a particular
filter media will pass. ASTM testing eliminates the majority of the user
defined parameters (variables) for what we consider to be more accurate
results. The Harley filter that is advertised as 10 microns using SAE tests
actually passed 48 micron particles when run through the ASTM test. The 5
micron filter passed up to 39 microns. At 35 microns we meet or exceed the
filtration performance of the factory filters. An interesting thing to note
is that out of all the paper filters we have tested, the factory Harley
filter has performed better than most paper filters for particulate size.

The flow rate is where our filter really excels. We flow approximately 5
times more than the EVO filter, resulting in faster oil pressure at startup,
less chance of bypass operation, less back pressure against the oil pump
(potential HP gains) and better oil cooling. The reason we can get more
flow with the same filtration is due to the filter media. Cellulose or
other particles glued or pressed together don't have nearly the flow of very
small stainless steel wires woven into a filter cloth. This woven cloth
also produces more consistent filtration across the entire media, as well as
from filter to filter.

It's good you are thinking about the bypass operation in the overall
equation. After all, it doesn't matter how good the filter media is if it
doesn't flow enough to prevent the bypass from opening. Bypass operation is
a direct result of differential pressure (the difference in pressure between
the outside and inside of the filter element). We installed a gage on each
side of the filter on a pro stock motorcycle. During a pass down the track
we measured 20 lbs of differential pressure with a stock paper filter. We
measured less than 1 lb with our filter. That means a filter with a bypass
spring pressure of 15 lbs will have the bypass open. Ours, with a starting
spring pressure of 3.5 lbs, still has a 300 percent margin before the bypass
opens.

One additional thought. I have heard that the Harley engineers have been
researching the mister problem and are eyeing the paper particles that are
released from the paper filter media as a potential problem area. Cut apart
a new paper filter and rub the media surface and you'll see why they might
suspect something.

The Super Premium filter that I am aware of is the 5 micron filter and
should not be run on the Evo. It doesn't flow enough and will cause
problems with the back pressure it develops in the oiling system.

We have thousands of filters out there on Twin Cams and haven't had a
problem.

Hope all of this helps. Thanks for being a customer and for taking an
interest in oil filtration. There is a lot more to it than most people
realize.

Dave Fisher
K&P Engineering
303-507-4540
dave@kandpengineering.com
High Performance Oil Filters

I replied back

Quote:

Dave,
I truely appreciate your time in answering this one guy's questioning.

Being part of the petro industry I'm well aware of the ASTM ratings on many things in my field, just not your particular spec. I tried to look it up but was having some difficulty finding a simple break down and how it relates to an oil filter.

I'm well aware of the paper filters breaking down and releasing the very paper filter into the motor that is suppose to be protecting the motor. One of the riders that spoke praise of the K&P filter years ago, said that after 30k on his evo when he switched to the K&P and was finding paper media in his K&P for about 3 oil changes. I may have to do this on the next paper filter oil change I do on a buds bike just to show them and get some pictures for more proof.

So out of all the other paper media filters the HD filters work the best but still lack seriously in their filtering. So the newest HD super prem filter being their best 5 micron filter is the one you are saying only filters to 39 microns?

I'm with ya on not running a TC filter on a EVO and wonder why HD would recommend it. I see a great deal of filter bypassing happening with that type of application.

I appreciate the insight on the bypassing function. I knew it was something of that sort.

At the end of the day the K&P filters 35 microns and that is a constant filtration that isn't restricted by the downfalls of the paper media. The reason why the K&P can work on both a TC and EVO is because of its superior flow rates, correct?

Can you answer my final few questions above. Does it sound like I have my head on straight with this? If you want, register and post on the link I put above. I will copy/paste your response but it may be better to come straight from the source.

Good Day & Thanks Again!
-Chris

Well there it is... As I said, I know many who have seen the paper media pieces in their K&P mesh at the time of oil changes. It does make me feel a bit better after some doubt was casted around these parts.

What do you guys think?

And yet another response.

Quote:

Test number is ASTMF316

If you do take pictures of the paper debris being filtered out please send
me a copy and I will add it to our web site as independent testing. We can
test all day long, but it is still testing we are sponsoring and as such
should be viewed with the same scrutiny as other manufacturers data.

I wouldn't say the HD filters are lacking on the filtration. Most paper oil
filters return results in the 50-90 micron range. This is inclusive of
automotive filters. Remember, 50 microns is pretty small stuff. A white
blood cell is around 25 microns, cigarette smoke is 10 microns.... If
these weren't sufficient filtration levels there would be a lot of internal
combustion engine failures.

The reason our filter can be used on both the EVO and Twin Cam applications
is they meet or exceed the filtration of the Twin Cam (which has very
restricted flow) and flow many times more than the EVO (which doesn't filter
as fine as the Twin Cam but flows more). We provide the best of both
worlds.

One final note: After a very long process of testing, quality assurance and
process validation our filters have been awarded FAA certification. You are
running the same filters that have passed this certification.

I have also emailed K&N about their 170 vs 171

A post from another member... just goes to show the excellance of these things

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raywood

Yet our BDM motors (05 and newer) are Evo bottom ends with TC topends with the Hi-output oil pumps. So a combination of all the above.

Been using the K&P for a few years now as many of you know and put a lot of miles in it including many this year already and I'm one of those that has pictures supporting picking up the paper fibers of the K&N.

I'm not afraid to keep using my K&P (as long as you keep it clean) for the lifetime of my motor that just runs and runs.

Good post. :2thumbs:

I will note that since about my second cleaning of this filter I've never gotten the debrie you see here:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...lChange008.jpg

My email to K&N

Quote:

hello,
I have been doing some research on the proper oil filter for the proper motor. With a garage that has both EVO and Twin Cam motors in it. I see that both K&N and HD offer oil filters that are listed to serve both motors. This is troubling...

The EVO motor is a low pressure, high volume oiling system. The oil filter for this motor needs to be capable of high flow and be able to flow at low pressures. It should not have the anti-drain back.

The TC motor is a high pressure, low volume oiling system. This oil filter needs more filtering due to the 5 micron passages on the misters. This should have the anti-drain back.

That being said. I see and have always used the 170 oil filter on the evo motors. I have always believed that the 171 is the filter for the Twin Cam motors. I know this works. However both K&N (171) and HD (63731-99A
)have offer these filters that when cross referenced they can link back to the EVO oil filter part numbers.

The way I believe it would happen if you ran a TC oil filter on a EVO motor, that at idle the evo won't put out enough pressure to push thru the 5 micron rated paper media, therefor the pressure would increase enough to go thru the bypass valve. Not good.

So if you still approve the 171 for the EVO motor, does the 171 not carry a 5 micron rating? That would mean its not approved for TC motors. How can the 171 fit both motors?

Sorry for so many questions but I'm trying to wrap my head around this. I appreciate your time and consideration on this matter, as a loyal customer.

Good day,
-Chris

Response:

Quote:

Dear K&N Valued Customer,

Thanks for your interest in our products, The EVO engines use a reverse flow oil system. which means that the oil flows through the oil filter backwards thus not allowing us to use and anti drain back valve. That is why the kn-170 filter is used. If you used a kn-171 filter in that situation the oil would not be able to flow past the drain back valve causing an oiling problem. The Twin cam uses a conventional oil flow system which allows us to utilize the anti drain back feature. Our oil filters are capable of handling the high pressure high volume oil flows that performance oil pumps can put out. Our Uniform pleated synthetic base media has a less of a pressure drop across the media without sacrificing filtration. This means your engine is going to get all the oil it was intended to get from the oil pump. When you are dealing with EVO engines it is best to go on our website and look up the specific bike when applicable to see what filter we recommend. My understanding is not all EVO engines are reverse oil flow. If I can be of further assistance feel free to call or email.

Ryan Pelkey
Technical & Customer Support Representative
K&N Engineering
Ryanp@knfilters.com
Phone: (800) 858-3333
*When replying please include this entire e-mail*

Sure sounds like this guy is copy/paste some sales pitch... so I rebute

Quote:

Ryan,
Please give more info on the micron rating for the K&N filters for both motors.

Also, how is it that when the cross reference numbers are looked up for your 171 that it can be cross referenced to an HD filter for an EVO.

Can you provide some information on the K&N filter that makes it superior to other paper media filters such as a HD unit.

Further, I will share this info with my biker buds to help promote the use of the K&N filters.

Thanks again,
-Chris

Again a response out of a sales manual

Quote:

Dear K&N Customer,

Thank you again for your interest in K&N products. I do realize that in some cases the 171 Filter is listed for an EVO engine. We recommend that you look up the oil filters for EVO engines by year make and model of the bike instead of cross referencing the filter number. We have listed the filters for each bike application by the OEM filter number to ensure the right filter is being used because using the wrong filter could result in engine damage. The K&N Performance Gold Oil Filter has been constructed from the ground up to satisfy the high performance needs of Powersports racers, as well as the average bike owner who wants the very best oil filter available. Our synthetic-cellulose blend filter media stops particles as small as 10-20 microns at 90 Percent efficiency while still allowing high flow rates (between 12-16 gallons per minute, depending on filter size). This does not mean the filter does not filter out smaller particles. I do not have any data on the filters efficiency below 10-20 micron. Keep in mind the 5 micron filter is a recommended premium filter Not a Required filter. In applications where a steel-canister type filter is used, we use a heavy-duty steel casing, double-rolled seams to prevent leaks, internally lubricated o-rings to maintain a good seal (even after repeated removal/installation), and attach a 17mm nut for quick and easy removal. An attractive black or chrome finish is available on most canister style filters. Vehicles which use a cartridge-type filter (no metal canister around the element) also benefit from K&N's oil filter technology. The same features of a canister-type filter element have been incorporated into a cartridge-style filter. All K&N Performance Gold Oil Filters are manufactured to meet and exceed the requirements of automotive manufacturers, contain anti-drain back and pressure relief valves when required in OE applications, and are covered by a K&N limited warranty to be free from defects in materials and workmanship when installed and replaced using the engine and equipment manufacturers recommended service intervals.

If you have any further questions please call our Customer Support team at 1(800)858-3333 and a representative will be happy to assist you. Thank you for writing and have a great day.

Ryan Pelkey
Technical & Customer Support Representative
K&N Engineering
Ryanp@knfilters.com
Phone: (800) 858-3333
*When replying please include this entire e-mail*

I'm not impressed with K&N and their response. This guy seems to not have any techincal background or insight.

A quick search gave me this about the rating of meeting only 50% of it rated value:

http://www.carjunky.com/news/motor_oil/mom7.shtml

Quote:

IF MICRON LEVELS ARE TO BE USED

Nevertheless, you may still want to compare filters using micron ratings. If this is the case, the following is a good rule of thumb. A filter is considered nominally efficient at a certain micron level if it can remove 50 percent of particles that size. In other words, a filter that will consistently remove 50% of particles 20 microns or larger is nominally efficient at 20 microns.

A filter is considered to achieve absolute filtration efficiency at a certain micron level if it can remove 98.7% of particles that size. So, if a filter can remove 98.7% of particles 20 microns or larger, it achieves absolute efficiency at that micron level.

Most off-the-shelf filters are based upon a cellulose fiber filtration media. Most of these filters are, at best, nominally efficient at 15 to 20 microns. They won't generally achieve absolute efficiency until particle sizes reach 30 microns or higher.

High efficiency oil filters have filtration media made of a combination of at least two of the following: glass, synthetic fibers and cellulose fibers. Those that use all three are generally the best in terms of filtration. Those that use only two will fall somewhere in between. The best of these high efficiency filters will achieve absolute efficiency down to about 10 microns and will be nominally efficient down to 5 microns or so.

Well the K&N guy stated

Quote:

Our synthetic-cellulose blend filter media stops particles as small as 10-20 microns at 90 Percent efficiency while still allowing high flow rates (between 12-16 gallons per minute, depending on filter size).

So wouldn't that mean that their best filter can pass things as large as 22 microns.

Further I don't believe thier GPM. That is going to be the best filter size which will be MANY MANY times bigger than our little filters and at what PSI input from the oil pump... 40psi?

I thought I read that the K&P filter has absolute (100%) efficiency at 35 microns. NOTHING gets past it bigger than 35 microns.

And lastly... you can purchase K&P filters from Don at Value Teck
http://www.valueteck.com/page2.html

More information of FAQ
http://www.kandpengineering.com/faq.shtml

especially interesting part about warrenties at the bottom.

So has this info fallen to deaf ears?

No, still reading. :lol:

Not deaf ears, but when they hear $100+ for an oil filter they become very hard of hearing.:lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2 (Post 336176)

Not deaf ears, but when they hear $100+ for an oil filter they become very hard of hearing.:lol:

3 years and it's paid for itself for me.

I should look into it.

And then I check the website... no application for the 1125.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fasternyou929 (Post 336167)

No, still reading. :lol:

Its a good amount of reading. Trust me I know... I put it together...

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2 (Post 336176)

Not deaf ears, but when they hear $100+ for an oil filter they become very hard of hearing.:lol:

Well I showed the math...

I bet the same people that complaign about that, don't buy K&N or other style air filters...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cutty72 (Post 336205)

And then I check the website... no application for the 1125.

You should contact them and ask....

I think the Scott's would look pimp on my bike. I just don't have the money for it.

If anybody wants me to review it.. Feel free to send one my way. :lol:

Scotts filter is made by K&P.

Just like the Scotts Dampner is made by ohlins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cutty72 (Post 336205)

And then I check the website... no application for the 1125.

have you referrenced the part numbers? If the Xb12 filter fits the 1125, and they make one for the xb12. That's not to say it's a sure thing, but it's a step in the right direction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gas Man (Post 336234)

Scotts filter is made by K&P.

Just like the Scotts Dampner is made by ohlins.

Good info, thanks Gas. I knew they looked similar.

Do they offer different colors?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmall (Post 336235)

have you referrenced the part numbers? If the Xb12 filter fits the 1125, and they make one for the xb12. That's not to say it's a sure thing, but it's a step in the right direction.

Good info, thanks Gas. I knew they looked similar.

Do they offer different colors?

Not really. But you could do it before install.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmall (Post 336235)

have you referrenced the part numbers? If the Xb12 filter fits the 1125, and they make one for the xb12. That's not to say it's a sure thing, but it's a step in the right direction.

Doubt it, as the XB has a HD engine, while the 1125 is a Rotax.

1125 is an internal filter, not a spin on type.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2 (Post 336176)

Not deaf ears, but when they hear $100+ for an oil filter they become very hard of hearing.:lol:

Multiplied by the 5 bikes I have, that's about 600 clams to drop on oil filters, that I have to clean.

I've been running HIFLOWFILTRO's on all my bikes for about the last ten years. They're TUV approved.

TUV, is the German testing agency for all things automotive. Basically, if you want to run any aftermarket part in Germany, it has to be TUV approved. Getting a TUV approval, is notoriously difficult. You have to jump through some major hoops. The K&N filters for bikes, are actually made by HIFLOW.

As far as the math goes, what's your time worth? I'd have to guess you're looking at an hour or so, to get the stainless filter 100% clean?

For my applications, an $8.00, 10 micron filter that I don't have to fuck with, beats a $125.00, 30 micron filter hands down.

JC

Quote:

Originally Posted by askmrjesus (Post 336241)

If it takes you any more than 5-10 minutes to clean a filter, you're doing it wrong. If you use solvents you should be able to dunk and swish. If you use compressed air, wrap it in a rag and blow the air through.. We do it all the time at work.

How long does it take you to drive to the store and back and wait at the parts counter? That's not to say you couldn't just buy a case of oil filters..

Quote:

Originally Posted by askmrjesus (Post 336241)

I'm kinda with you on this... I'm lazy and would probably "forget" to clean the damn thing...

I fully understand the arguments presented here but;

1. I change my oil frequently and doubt that it gets dirty enough to cause the problems presented.

2. I'm not convinced that a few small pieces of paper are a serious threat to my engine.

3. Millions of engines run billions of miles on "paper filters" without problems. This sounds like a lot of hype and fear tactics to sell $100+ filters.

4. One of my biggest fears is that the aluminum threads decide to get stuck on the steel mount...ever have a stuck oil filter? I wonder if it is harder to remove with the engine hot.

Ill stick with synthetic media. I find it hard to believe that metal that is used for "screening" is better at"filtering." Of course its going to flow better. It doesn't filter, it screens the oil.

I could use the material you'd find on your window screens as an air filter for my bike, but I like to take care of my bike.

I'm goig to take a guess that jets us SS filters cause they need to last and the fluid is under a ton of pressure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangerscott (Post 336265)

I'll go out on a limb and guess that they use more than one filter...besides, comparing a jet/jet turbine against a motorcycle engine is similar to comparing my bike's engine to a steam locomotive's...not even close to an apple to apple comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 336257)

I totally agree with you on this post.

3. if its good enough for the masses then its good enough for me, paper filters have done me fine up to this point, not gonna change now.

4. If I ever have a regular oil filter that is too stuck to remove with a filter wrench, I just stab it with a screw driver and twist off like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by derf (Post 336273)

Exactly my point, what do you do with this $100 aluminum filter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 336278)

Exactly my point, what do you do with this $100 aluminum filter?

Ahhh, and that is the question that begs to be asked....

My oil filter is shineier than your oil filter!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 336278)

Exactly my point, what do you do with this $100 aluminum filter?

Use a bigger screwdriver :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommymac (Post 336322)

Use a bigger screwdriver :lol:

Nah, big pliers. Would a dab of grease on the threads hurt?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangerscott (Post 336326)

Nah, big pliers. Would a dab of grease on the threads hurt?

when I install the screw on filters I always put a light film of oil around the gasket, even on the priller I put some on the cover for the filter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommymac (Post 336327)

when I install the screw on filters I always put a light film of oil around the gasket, even on the priller I put some on the cover for the filter.

Ok, school me on this, I have been doinbg that since I was shown how to do an oil change, but I thought it had more to do with not damaging the gasket rather than spinning it on and off

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmall (Post 336249)

I'm too anal about my bikes, to do anything in 5-10 minutes. :lol:

A question about solvents; What are you using, and what effect does its ingredients have on your oil?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmall (Post 336249)

How long does it take you to drive to the store and back and wait at the parts counter? That's not to say you couldn't just buy a case of oil filters..

My filter supply is usually about 6 deep, per bike. It's a 90 minute round trip to "town", so I hoard bike supplies.

JC

Quote:

Originally Posted by derf (Post 336330)

Ok, school me on this, I have been doinbg that since I was shown how to do an oil change, but I thought it had more to do with not damaging the gasket rather than spinning it on and off

It helps with both, but the original idea, was to make a better seal.

JC

Quote:

Originally Posted by derf (Post 336330)

Ok, school me on this, I have been doinbg that since I was shown how to do an oil change, but I thought it had more to do with not damaging the gasket rather than spinning it on and off

It is. I was talking about putting grease on the "THREADS," not the gasket.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangerscott (Post 336396)

It is. I was talking about putting grease on the "THREADS," not the gasket.

I always put oil on the threads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangerscott (Post 336326)

Nah, big pliers. Would a dab of grease on the threads hurt?

PLIERS on my $100 aluminum oil filter? FUCK YOU!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 336278)

Exactly my point, what do you do with this $100 aluminum filter?

It comes with one of those filter wrench attachment things that fit over the top of the filter and connects to a ratchet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by askmrjesus (Post 336347)

I'm too anal about my bikes, to do anything in 5-10 minutes. :lol:

A question about solvents; What are you using, and what effect does its ingredients have on your oil?

My filter supply is usually about 6 deep, per bike. It's a 90 minute round trip to "town", so I hoard bike supplies.

JC

We use Jizer quite often. It's a kerosene based water soluble degreaser. I fill a bucket with it and another with water. I dunk our cruise diesel particulate filters in it, swish em around and toss them in the water. They're spotless in seconds. They get another swish in the water, dried off with compressed air and then reassembled.

Most oil has fuel in it anyway. There's a really easy way to test for it. We use a Kittiwake machine (http://www.kittiwake.com/). But, when I started the job we used to use a ball bearing test. You fill a test tube with old oil, and one with new oil. You drop a ball bearing in and time it. If the old oil allows the bearing to fall faster, it has fuel contamination, any slower and it's carbon/solids build up. The only problem was, what if it's contaminated from both? Which is why we use the new system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by askmrjesus (Post 336241)

For my applications, an $8.00, 10 micron filter that I don't have to fuck with, beats a $125.00, 30 micron filter hands down.

JC

The problem here is that the paper filter doesn't filter at 10 microns for very long. Then it filters even higher than the ss filters. Where as the SS 35 micron is absolute.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2 (Post 336434)

It comes with one of those filter wrench attachment things that fit over the top of the filter and connects to a ratchet.

True.... works great.

I'm sticking with my paper gimmicks. I just dont care enough to spend the 100 bones. And I'm lazy. I order my K&N filters on the net and sit on my duff till the mail man drops them off at the front door.

Old off and in the trash, new on. No cleaning. Again, I'm lazy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2 (Post 336434)

It comes with one of those filter wrench attachment things that fit over the top of the filter and connects to a ratchet.

The only filter tool worth owning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatard (Post 336902)

The only filter tool worth owning.

Have on. Still jam a screw driver through the filter. :lol

Yep, I should have mentioned, that's always plan B.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatard (Post 336902)

The only filter tool worth owning.

I disagree...I use filter pliers to take the old ones off. My bike is set up so I don't have to remove any fairings to change the oil. If I tried to use a cap style wrench with a ratchet, I'd have to remove body parts...no thanks. Plus I never have had to use a screw driver...I can can clamp down as hard as I please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 336907)

I like the 17mm nut on the end of the K&N.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko138 (Post 336909)

I like the 17mm nut on the end of the K&N.

I've eye balled those but again I don't think I can get a ratchet in there...besides, I don't care how much I fuck up the old filter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko138 (Post 336909)

I like the 17mm nut on the end of the K&N.

Every fucking filter should have a nut welded on top. Really, how much more would it cost, $0.05? $0.10?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 336912)

I've eye balled those but again I don't think I can get a ratchet in there...besides, I don't care how much I fuck up the old filter.

I hear ya. It's really easy to get to on the Buell:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/...0b28068a_o.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatard (Post 336914)

Every fucking filter should have a nut welded on top. Really, how much more would it cost, $0.05? $0.10?

Agreed.

I take mine off and put em on with my hands. I've never had a problem...

I pull the cover off and pull it out. Done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cutty72 (Post 336929)

I pull the cover off and pull it out. Done.

That's what she said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmall (Post 336934)

That's what she said.

:lol