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-   -   If it comes off the bike it needs to go back on (http://www.twowheelfix.com/showthread.php?t=19296)

derf 05-30-2011 01:28 PM

If it comes off the bike it needs to go back on
 
This happened because the owner forgot to put back a spacer inside the wheel hub. Now the guy is 2000 miles from home, and trying desperately to replace his slightly melted swingarm and rear wheel.

http://i.imgur.com/hvuvl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1t0Vv.jpg

G-Rex 05-30-2011 01:37 PM

What. The. Fuck.

There is a reason mechanics have a job. This guy. :wtfru:

fasternyou929 05-30-2011 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Rex (Post 473167)
What. The. Fuck.

There is a reason mechanics have a job. This guy. :wtfru:

What do you mean? I'm sure there weren't ANY warning signs that something was wrong. :lol

derf 05-30-2011 02:42 PM

http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthr...ghlight=melted

Quote:

I'm on a round-the-US trip, and apparently, I forgot to put on the chain-side wheel spacer the last time I changed the tire. The bike made it 3500 miles, but on a 105 degree day, in the middle of the Texas desert, this happened:

Obviously, I need a new swingarm, and probably everything in the rear wheel as well. I'm spending a good bit of time tracking down used parts to replace everything with, but even buying used parts, and doing everything myself it's still going to be a $500 mistake, and it'll cost me a week of travel time. Don't neglect your spacers, apparently they're there for a reason!

Nah, it was definitely the heat that did it. The sprocket probably started rubbing on the swingarm after the bearing cap got hot enough to smush itself into the swingarm, and because the swingarm was so hot and soft, when the sprocket started contacting the swingarm, I think the force from that contact, combined with the tension from the chain, was enough to cause the swingarm to bend towards the front of the bike like a warm stick of butter. The rear wheel was smoking for a good five minutes after I stopped the bike. It was super-heated...

But I've been wondering, and maybe one of the more experienced people here can answer this question: why, exactly, would the loss of that spacer cause this to happen? A highly experienced motorcycle mechanic/drag racer named Mike Long of Odessa, TX took one look at it and told me that he bet it was missing a spacer, which made my heart sink because, well, I thought I remembered missing it, but I never really understood why that would cause this to happen. I remember eyeballing the sprockets/chain for alignment when I put it back together, and everything lined up, so I thought it was good. All the spacer'd do, it seems, would move the wheel about a half inch to the right, which doesn't seem like it'd be enough to make that much of a difference. Maybe because the wheel was misaligned, the tension from the chain would have been pulling the wheel to one side,which would put excess pressure on one side of the bearings, eventually causing the bearing to go kaput, create a ton of heat, and nuke my hub? And maybe, in more temperate climes, the excess heat from that slight misalignment would be dissipated, but maybe that 105 ambient Texas heat was just enough to push it over the edge into meltdown territory?

Karson, I'd gladly post a pic of that spacer, but it's about 2k miles away back in GA, probably rolling around somewhere on my driveway.

But if you want to check, just go look at the sprocket side of your rear wheel, and, if I remember correctly, you should see a dust cup that covers the bearing with a 1/2" or so spacer between that and the swingarm.

But why did it last 3500 miles before grenading? Hmmm... Actually, I tightened the chain the day before this happened, and I did put a little more torque on the axle nut than usual... guess that little bit of extra torque plus the heat might have been all it took to kaput the whole deal, which had been wearing away since I left home. What a stupid mistake!


derf 05-30-2011 02:50 PM

I've seen idiots ruin a swingarm when they forgot to put in a spacer and the bolts ate through the swingarm.

http://www.desmodemon.com/907_swingarm/swingarm_1.jpg

But straight up melting it? That takes serious balls

Particle Man 05-30-2011 02:59 PM

Damn - not so sure I'd advertise doing something that dumb :lol:

derf 05-30-2011 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Particle Man (Post 473176)
Damn - not so sure I'd advertise doing something that dumb :lol:

There was another thread where he was looking for help locating a swingarm, there was no hiding the fact that your got all screwed up

Gas Man 05-30-2011 08:33 PM

How the F did he think his tire was lined up in first place after he put the tire/rim back on??? WOW... this is why some people should just have dealerships do their work to their cars/bikes.

But if you're dumb enough to do above, you're dumb enough to not notice that for 3500 miles either.

derf 05-30-2011 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gas Man (Post 473219)
How the F did he think his tire was lined up in first place after he put the tire/rim back on??? WOW... this is why some people should just have dealerships do their work to their cars/bikes.

But if you're dumb enough to do above, you're dumb enough to not notice that for 3500 miles either.

I would imagine that the rear would wobble pretty bad, but at the same time I can see how if yo ignore a new wobble or sound that is ignored for a few miles can turn into a normal feeling.

This is also the reason that when I'm doing vehicluar work I put stuff like nuts and bolts and spacers in either a magnetic tray or a small plastic shop box

Gas Man 05-30-2011 09:28 PM

Yeah I use a muffin pan... bigger than an ice cube tray. Plus it's metal.

G-Rex 05-30-2011 09:43 PM

I've taken a couple of bikes apart and put them back together again.

My personal method is zip-loc bags. For assemblies like the rear spacers, etc. I use zip-ties and zip-tie everything in order.

That fella above needs to stick to paying people to work on his bikes.

derf 05-30-2011 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gas Man (Post 473228)
Yeah I use a muffin pan... bigger than an ice cube tray. Plus it's metal.

Same as my plastic tray


Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Rex (Post 473232)
I've taken a couple of bikes apart and put them back together again.

My personal method is zip-loc bags. For assemblies like the rear spacers, etc. I use zip-ties and zip-tie everything in order.

That fella above needs to stick to paying people to work on his bikes.

I use zip lock bags, small boxes, zip ties, anything to keep stuff together. As long as nothing gets lost

ontwo 05-30-2011 10:39 PM

Holy Shit! !!

Rangerscott 05-31-2011 01:14 AM

Bearings are probably toast.

Dave 05-31-2011 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Rex (Post 473232)
I've taken a couple of bikes apart and put them back together again.

My personal method is zip-loc bags. For assemblies like the rear spacers, etc. I use zip-ties and zip-tie everything in order.

That fella above needs to stick to paying people to work on his bikes.

with a sharpie caption

fujimoh 05-31-2011 06:51 AM

He went 3500 miles and didn't lube his chain or check it for tension? I check the air in my tires and inspect the wheel/chain/sprocket before every ride

derf 05-31-2011 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangerscott (Post 473272)
Bearings are probably toast.

Just the bearings you say?

There is so much shit back there that is probably toast.

Rangerscott 05-31-2011 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derf (Post 473285)
Just the bearings you say?

There is so much shit back there that is probably toast.

I meant that he can go ahead and replace tye things he can see with his eyes but hell probably forget things you cant see aka bearings.

OneSickPsycho 05-31-2011 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derf (Post 473238)
Same as my plastic tray




I use zip lock bags, small boxes, zip ties, anything to keep stuff together. As long as nothing gets lost

Tackle box... all those little compartments... and you can latch them up to keep everything in place for when you knock it off the workbench.

anthonyk 05-31-2011 11:06 AM

Quote:

And maybe, in more temperate climes, the excess heat from that slight misalignment would be dissipated, but maybe that 105 ambient Texas heat was just enough to push it over the edge into meltdown territory?
Uh, no. :wtfru:

shmike 05-31-2011 11:20 AM

I can't even fathom how that is possible. :scratch:

What's the output on a KLR? 50 - 60hp?

I can understand forgetting a spacer but how does one ride a KLR down the street (forget about hundresd of miles) without noticing that there is a "bit" more drag than usual?

derf 05-31-2011 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangerscott (Post 473291)
I meant that he can go ahead and replace tye things he can see with his eyes but hell probably forget things you cant see aka bearings.

Add to that the cush drive, sprocket, axle, nut, even the hub and the rear brake and brake fluid become suspect at this point, not to mention teh bearings which are toast. What other parts that were super heated enough to melt a swingarm that are now weakened? How hot did the hub get, did any of the spokes weaken? I mean really the whole thing needs to be xrayed and looked at carefully and seen which parts are still as strong as they were when they were first made, which are heat fatigue casualties? The whole swingarm assembly is toast

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmike (Post 473314)
I can't even fathom how that is possible. :scratch:

What's the output on a KLR? 50 - 60hp?

I can understand forgetting a spacer but how does one ride a KLR down the street (forget about hundresd of miles) without noticing that there is a "bit" more drag than usual?

a whopping 35hp. I would think that you could feel something wrong with the wheel too.

Gas Man 06-01-2011 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho (Post 473293)
Tackle box... all those little compartments... and you can latch them up to keep everything in place for when you knock it off the workbench.

That's a good one!

Quote:

Originally Posted by derf (Post 473322)
Add to that the cush drive, sprocket, axle, nut, even the hub and the rear brake and brake fluid become suspect at this point, not to mention teh bearings which are toast. What other parts that were super heated enough to melt a swingarm that are now weakened? How hot did the hub get, did any of the spokes weaken? I mean really the whole thing needs to be xrayed and looked at carefully and seen which parts are still as strong as they were when they were first made, which are heat fatigue casualties? The whole swingarm assembly is toast



a whopping 35hp. I would think that you could feel something wrong with the wheel too.

I would say everything behind the trans is junk and maybe even look at that sprocket and output shaft seal. I'm with ya, I wouldn't trust the rear wheel or anything attached to it.

derf 06-01-2011 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gas Man (Post 473437)
That's a good one!



I would say everything behind the trans is junk and maybe even look at that sprocket and output shaft seal. I'm with ya, I wouldn't trust the rear wheel or anything attached to it.

I think he could probably salvage the tire and the rim, I dont think that spokes can transfer that much heat, being so thin I bet they cool off well before the rim. Also I would bet the swing arm pivot bolt is good too. But yeh everything behind that is toast. Its just cheaper and easier to replace instead of getting it properly examined and then replaced as necessary.

Particle Man 06-01-2011 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derf (Post 473455)
I think he could probably salvage the tire and the rim, I dont think that spokes can transfer that much heat, being so thin I bet they cool off well before the rim. Also I would bet the swing arm pivot bolt is good too. But yeh everything behind that is toast. Its just cheaper and easier to replace instead of getting it properly examined and then replaced as necessary.

Personally, I wouldn't take the risk. I would probably replace everything from the swingarm pivot back. There's plenty of wrecked bikes out there from which to get surrogate parts.

Could probably get a complete rear assembly cheaper than all of the separate parts that need to be replaced anyhow (to say nothing about what it would cost if you miss something)

tommymac 06-01-2011 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Particle Man (Post 473470)
Personally, I wouldn't take the risk. I would probably replace everything from the swingarm pivot back. There's plenty of wrecked bikes out there from which to get surrogate parts.

Probably get a complete rear assembly cheaper than all of the separate parts that need to be replaced anyhow (to say nothing about what it would cost if you miss something)

agreed, just replace everything from the swingarm, and back.

Gas Man 06-02-2011 08:31 AM

I will agree with the tire and pivit bolt. But as far as the rim & spokes. I'm going to say ok, maybe, but the hub is toast so just buy a new rim. Cheaper and easier.

derf 06-04-2011 02:07 PM

Minor update, the spacer was on the bike when the guy took the hub apart, it was fused to a bearing and because the bearing lost all the balls or rollers it was pushed way back into the hub. Either way the hub is toast too.

From what it looks like is that he either over tourqued the swing arm or something just failed out of no where.

http://i.imgur.com/AXtQi.jpg

Particle Man 06-05-2011 03:23 AM

That'd have to be some wicked over torquing...

racedoll 06-05-2011 07:53 AM

This is just crazy. No matter how you look at it, melting a swingarm seems to be damn near impossible yet this guy managed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho (Post 473293)
Tackle box... all those little compartments... and you can latch them up to keep everything in place for when you knock it off the workbench.

I take it you've had experience? :lol:

I either lay my parts on either side of the bike just as I've taken off (like an exploded view) or use an egg carton (or my "trunk" tray).


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