US government openly admits arming Mexican drug gangs with 30,000 firearms - but why? - Page 2

derf · 07-08-2011, 08:22 PM

No i read the article you provided and it is truly garbage journalism driven by the same sensationalism that pushes fox news to be uber conservative right wing. This guy talks about how the attorney general of the united states was involved in the planning, which was probably nothing more than him being given a 5 minute powerpoint presentation about how if we give them a few guns we can trace them back to the source, then he says it looks like a good plan and a year later that number somehow balooned into 30,000.

Seriously, the world isnt a huge conspiracy against the american people. And whats with the personal attacks?

I think i'm done with this thread

Avatard · 07-08-2011, 08:26 PM

You have just been a little too much of a mouthpiece for the establishment in the last few posts...and I mean, pretty far out there.

Personal attacks? The Red Riding Hood story tells of someone being taken in for not having seen a rather obvious bad situation stacking up against them.

That wasn't a personal attack, that was a (marginally humorous) shorthand reference to your apparent naivete, and myopia.

Particle Man · 07-08-2011, 08:30 PM

$$$$$$$

(either that or the "let 'em kill eachother and save us the trouble" mentality. Only sounds good on paper though....)

Avatard · 07-08-2011, 08:34 PM

Ding.

anthonyk · 07-08-2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatard

Eating the seafood platter at a sketchy restaurant is a "bad idea".

This is 30,000 firearms.

The garbage news site (and that's being nice) seems to be mistaken with their numbers. From the original Reuters article they quoted:

"Of the nearly 30,000 firearms recovered in 2009 and 2010 in Mexico, where gun possession is illegal, some 70 percent were determined to have come from the United States, ATF officials told lawmakers last week."

Not from the ATF, or the US government, but from north of the border in general. Sure it was a stupid move, but I'm with Derf. This is government incompetence, not a conspiracy.

nhgunnut · 07-09-2011, 07:48 AM

Just a couple of points because this one is close to my heart (see my original post on this some time ago.
They have records supplied by a whistle blowing ATF Agent 1800 "Assault Weapon" (Semi Auto firearms capable or using magazines with a capacities of higher than 5 rounds) They also have documentation that the FBI had a paid informant organizing the purchase of these firearms. Apparently using tax payer dollars. Further documentation indicates that DEA supplied intelligence on who to contact in Mexico to set up the sale of the weapons the FBI arranged the purchase of here in the states
We have 3 Federal Law Enforcement Agencies all who answer to AG Eric Holder working either in concert or through "blind coincidence" to supply weapons to drug cartels inside of Mexico.
This has resulted in the death of at least one US law enforcement officer ICE Officer Brian Terry and while not yet fully document apparently deaths of hundred of Mexican Citizens.
There are also letters indicating the Department of Justice , (again Eric Holder) has ordered that people not cooperate with the congressional investigation either by not appearing or by refusing to supply subpoenaed evidence.
Those are the the facts as they are currently documented as reported by ABC, CBS, BBC, and FOX.
Now acknowledging my pro Second Amendment bias, I can not help but suspect this has far more to do with legitimizing further attacks on the Second Amendment then any attempt at law enforcement.
Regardless of my supposition the facts at hand appear to Demand either the the resignation of Eric Holder for either a rather Convenient and Gross Incompetence , or Criminal Conspiracy to sell weapons to Narco Terrorists. ( again there is documentation that 4 agencies under his control acted to buy weapons and smuggle them to Mexican Drug Gangs, and are now trying to conceal there participation in the plot) whether this is Criminal or simple Incompetence Mr Holder needs to be removed.

Rangerscott · 07-09-2011, 01:49 PM

I dont find this shocking since this is just a repeat of whst the gov has done numerous times before and will continue to do so.

101lifts2 · 07-09-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatard

I can't speculate properly on why this happened. I suspect it isn't out of kindness, and goodwill, however...

You can believe whatever you want, Ms. Riding Hood.

How come when the government forces Health Care it's "for the good of the people", but when they try to track down where firearms are going to drug cartels "it's rediculous"? It's really all in the name of money transfer. I'm not so sure the U.S. government wants the drug cartels to vanish off the earth.

I'm siding with Derf on this one, though. It's makes logical sense (for the grunts (ATF/FBI)) to infiltrate these cartels by supplying guns to see where they end up. However, if you don't have a foolproof way to track them, sending 10k guns out isn't such a good idea.

Mikey · 07-09-2011, 03:44 PM

Before the operation was revealed, the anti-gun lobby was screaming that legally-purchased American guns were in the hands of Mexican gangs. There were calls for tighter gun laws across the board.

We have a liberal Chicago Democrat in the White House, and an AG that he appointed.

I realize that this whole thing sounds a bit tin-foil hat, but I don't think it's unreasonable to hypothesize that this was another gun-grabbing attempt. It was actually gaining some traction, too; until a whistleblower revealed the government operation behind the whole thing.

'73 H1 Triple · 07-09-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey

Before the operation was revealed, the anti-gun lobby was screaming that legally-purchased American guns were in the hands of Mexican gangs. There were calls for tighter gun laws across the board.

We have a liberal Chicago Democrat in the White House, and an AG that he appointed.

I realize that this whole thing sounds a bit tin-foil hat, but I don't think it's unreasonable to hypothesize that this was another gun-grabbing attempt. It was actually gaining some traction, too; until a whistleblower revealed the government operation behind the whole thing.

It is a failed attempt to further erode the 2nd Amendment.

They forced certain gun shop owners to sell the firearms to known straw purchasers even though they reported then to the BATFE

It wouldn't surprise if the corruption went all the way to the top.

07-08-2011, 08:22 PM	#11
derf token jewboy Join Date: Nov 2008 Moto: CBR 900, KLR ugly ass duckling, Gas Man Posts: 10,799	No i read the article you provided and it is truly garbage journalism driven by the same sensationalism that pushes fox news to be uber conservative right wing. This guy talks about how the attorney general of the united states was involved in the planning, which was probably nothing more than him being given a 5 minute powerpoint presentation about how if we give them a few guns we can trace them back to the source, then he says it looks like a good plan and a year later that number somehow balooned into 30,000. Seriously, the world isnt a huge conspiracy against the american people. And whats with the personal attacks? I think i'm done with this thread __________________

07-08-2011, 08:26 PM	#12
Avatard Crotch Rocket Curmudgeon Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Here to integrity Moto: Li'l red baby Ninja Posts: 7,482	You have just been a little too much of a mouthpiece for the establishment in the last few posts...and I mean, pretty far out there. Personal attacks? The Red Riding Hood story tells of someone being taken in for not having seen a rather obvious bad situation stacking up against them. That wasn't a personal attack, that was a (marginally humorous) shorthand reference to your apparent naivete, and myopia. __________________ Insert free thought here.

07-08-2011, 08:34 PM	#14
Avatard Crotch Rocket Curmudgeon Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Here to integrity Moto: Li'l red baby Ninja Posts: 7,482	Ding. __________________ Insert free thought here.

07-09-2011, 07:48 AM	#16
nhgunnut gun totin redneck Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South West New Hampshire Moto: turbo busa 999 Duc Goldwing & Victory Posts: 1,130	Just a couple of points because this one is close to my heart (see my original post on this some time ago. They have records supplied by a whistle blowing ATF Agent 1800 "Assault Weapon" (Semi Auto firearms capable or using magazines with a capacities of higher than 5 rounds) They also have documentation that the FBI had a paid informant organizing the purchase of these firearms. Apparently using tax payer dollars. Further documentation indicates that DEA supplied intelligence on who to contact in Mexico to set up the sale of the weapons the FBI arranged the purchase of here in the states We have 3 Federal Law Enforcement Agencies all who answer to AG Eric Holder working either in concert or through "blind coincidence" to supply weapons to drug cartels inside of Mexico. This has resulted in the death of at least one US law enforcement officer ICE Officer Brian Terry and while not yet fully document apparently deaths of hundred of Mexican Citizens. There are also letters indicating the Department of Justice , (again Eric Holder) has ordered that people not cooperate with the congressional investigation either by not appearing or by refusing to supply subpoenaed evidence. Those are the the facts as they are currently documented as reported by ABC, CBS, BBC, and FOX. Now acknowledging my pro Second Amendment bias, I can not help but suspect this has far more to do with legitimizing further attacks on the Second Amendment then any attempt at law enforcement. Regardless of my supposition the facts at hand appear to Demand either the the resignation of Eric Holder for either a rather Convenient and Gross Incompetence , or Criminal Conspiracy to sell weapons to Narco Terrorists. ( again there is documentation that 4 agencies under his control acted to buy weapons and smuggle them to Mexican Drug Gangs, and are now trying to conceal there participation in the plot) whether this is Criminal or simple Incompetence Mr Holder needs to be removed. __________________ Evolution requires a body count, Count or be Counted!

07-09-2011, 03:44 PM	#19
Mikey Raving Lunatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Antonio, Texas Moto: Concours 14 ABS, ZX6E Posts: 902	Before the operation was revealed, the anti-gun lobby was screaming that legally-purchased American guns were in the hands of Mexican gangs. There were calls for tighter gun laws across the board. We have a liberal Chicago Democrat in the White House, and an AG that he appointed. I realize that this whole thing sounds a bit tin-foil hat, but I don't think it's unreasonable to hypothesize that this was another gun-grabbing attempt. It was actually gaining some traction, too; until a whistleblower revealed the government operation behind the whole thing. __________________ Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

07-08-2011, 08:30 PM	#13
Particle Man Custom User Title Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central NY Moto: 2003 SV650S Posts: 14,959	$$$$$$$ (either that or the "let 'em kill eachother and save us the trouble" mentality. Only sounds good on paper though....)

07-09-2011, 01:49 PM	#17
Rangerscott Viff6N Mutated Warrior Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Moto: '01 Honda VFR 800 & '09 ER-6N Posts: 8,704	I dont find this shocking since this is just a repeat of whst the gov has done numerous times before and will continue to do so.