Buell is done, finished, gone

[wildchild]

http://www.jsonline.com/business/64352232.html

I usually don't post links but the gist is HD is dropping Buell and looks like maybe shutting it down. Loss of 180 jobs.

[Dave]

sucks to hear but not entirely unexpected. Wonder what will happen to mv now? Piaggio group maybe?

[Trip]

This makes me giggle like a schoolgirl. Although it sucks for the people losing their jobs.

I want to go laugh in DMG's face. So you attempted to run off Japanese bikes and now your precious Buell has failed.

[CasterTroy]

Shame

I really wanted to see them succeed with this new engine (one that didn’t shake the bike across the room at idle)

[z06boy]

I think it's funny as far as DMG is concerned.

Overall though I hate to hear it...kinda sux.

[Trip]

Erik has a video that looks like he is about to cry and glosses over the competitive advantage he was given over factory teams

www.buell.com

[Tmall]

Erik won't let buell dissolve.

Harley may drop em, but he'll come through with something else. He always does..

It is a shame though. If they would have franchised them out with the Japanese dealers instead of keeping them in the Harley boutiques, they may have sold better.

[Trip]

Erik won't let buell dissolve.

Harley may drop em, but he'll come through with something else. He always does..

It is a shame though. If they would have franchised them out with the Japanese dealers instead of keeping them in the Harley boutiques, they may have sold better.

Watch the video on www.buell.com, he is sticking with Harley.

[Tmall]

Until he's no longer contractually obligated? Lol

On the plus side, my anniversary edition probably won't depreciate so much!

[dReWpY]

just means marko will have something new to bitch about lol


it actually sucks, i was loving the buells and what they stood for

[pauldun170]

in a news release, harley said it would discontinue its buell brand, based in east troy, and divest the italian mv agusta brand.

wtf?

[RACER X]

hmmm.........a buell chasis w/ a 'busa motor........

[Rider]

I wonder is Eric Buell has the means to continue the company on it's own feet.

[Trip]

Looks like MV will be the next to go, sucks for them. Harley should of never touched them.

[Adeptus_Minor]

Makes me want a 1125CR a lot more now.

[SteveP]

Eric Buell will carry on the name somewhere else. How many times has aprilia been dropped now?

[i2iSTUDIOS]

Harley-Davidson Inc. said Thursday it will discontinue its Buell motorcycle brand and divest its recently acquired MV Agusta lineup as part of the company's long-term business strategy.

The news that Harley was dropping two lineups came as the struggling manufacturer also said that its third-quarter income fell 84% to $26.5 million, or 11 cents a share, from $166.5 million, or 71 cents a share a year ago.

The company had $1.12 billion in sales in the quarter, down 21% from $1.42 billion in the third quarter of 2008. Worldwide motorcycle sales at Harley dealers fell 21% during the third quarter compared with the same period in 2008. The company said it shipped 27% fewer motorcycles in the quarter.

In a news release, Harley said it would discontinue its Buell brand, based in East Troy, and divest the Italian MV Agusta brand. The Buell decision will result in the loss of about 80 manufacturing jobs in East Troy and about 100 salaried positions.

"The fact is we must focus both our effort and our investment on the Harley-Davidson brand, as we believe this provides an optimal path to sustained, meaningful long-term growth," CEO Keith Wandell said in the release.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/64352232.html

[z06boy]

Yep pretty much but there is another thread already on it.

*edit* Well not anymore. :lol:

[karl_1052]

That is too bad.
Even though I had no intention of ever buying one, I thought they were cool bikes.

[pauldun170]

Hey...Eric
Might wanna make a few phone calls

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/15/rumormill-volkswagen-interested-in-ducati-still/

[Dave]

Erik has a video that looks like he is about to cry and glosses over the competitive advantage he was given over factory teams

www.buell.com

looks like one of those gunpoint ''confessions'' third worlds are so fond of

[Phenix_Rider]

Seems retarded to me. HD drops the only things that made them interesting to the sportbike/youngish crowd. Now they're going to focus on making more slow, overweight, over-accessorized, oil cooled bikes? :td:

[Dave]

Seems retarded to me. HD drops the only things that made them interesting to the sportbike/youngish crowd. Now they're going to focus on making more slow, overweight, over-accessorized, oil cooled bikes? :td:

you forgot overpriced. Maybe now victory will consider doing a sportsbike. I seriously doubt indian would

[OTB]

I got a feeling this is just the beginning; look for slashed Fim and Ama factory teams shortly. These are expenses few can continue to have in the face of plummeting sales and profits.

If you want to see what happens in worldwide economic downturn, look back to the late 70's and early 80's which heralded the demise of the British motorcycle industry and the pullback of the Europeans; Ducati stopped importing to the US, Laverda staggered on for a couple of years and many marques disappeared altogether.

Buell is just a first-rounder, Mv may find a daddy warbucks, but my bet is that Moto Guzzi will go, at least from the US; Benelli will likely get shucked off by it's Indonesian benefactor and won't likely find a buyer;look for CanAm (the folks that brought us the Spyder) to go away.....

[Tmall]

anybody else think this is just the start or things?

Honda still has a lot of new 07s on the floor.

They just happen to have a big parent company to eat the losses.

[HokieDNA01]

Erik Buell just needs to plead to the government like Harley Davidson did in the 80's to save their asses from backrupcy by taxing the shit out of all imported bikes. Funny how Harley can't remember their roots on this one just as Buell starts to show real promise for the future with their new line up.

If you aren't familar with how the government saved Harley ass you can read more about it here. Funny how over priced HDs are now compared to Jap bikes...wonder if that tarriff is still in place?

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa032.html

[No Worries]

From the article: "The decision to drop Buell comes only a month after a Buell 1125R bike beat Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki motorcycles to win the coveted American Motorcycle Association's sport bike championship Sept. 8 in New Jersey. It was the first pro championship for an American motorcycle manufacturer since 1986 and the first for Buell."

Is there anything Harley Davidson on the 1125R? What does Buell need from Harley Davidson? Dealerships for sales and service.

Too bad Eric doesn't know that this is the best thing to happen to him. He should distance himself from Harley Davidson, which caters to aging baby-boomers (but not me).

Maybe he should become the first American motorcycle company to sell motorcycles and parts directly off the internet. Or at least join with dealerships from a smaller company with a similar sporty engine, like Aprilia or Ducati.

[pdog]

Buell is embedded too tightly with HD to be worth selling. Believe me, HD would sell it if they thought they could.

People have been saying "The latest Buell bikes show real potential" for years now. Potential doesn't pay the bills. Sales matter and apparently they weren't selling.

It's sadly hilarious that DMG rigged the DSB rules to favor the Buells, they win the championship and now they are done. Maybe they'll create a stock class for Electro-glides?

[Dave]

Buell is embedded too tightly with HD to be worth selling. Believe me, HD would sell it if they thought they could.

People have been saying "The latest Buell bikes show real potential" for years now. Potential doesn't pay the bills. Sales matter and apparently they weren't selling.

It's sadly hilarious that DMG rigged the DSB rules to favor the Buells, they win the championship and now they are done. Maybe they'll create a stock class for Electro-glides?

probably wipe out the whole dsb class for a xr1200 one make series

[goof2]

From the article: "The decision to drop Buell comes only a month after a Buell 1125R bike beat Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki motorcycles to win the coveted American Motorcycle Association's sport bike championship Sept. 8 in New Jersey. It was the first pro championship for an American motorcycle manufacturer since 1986 and the first for Buell."

Is there anything Harley Davidson on the 1125R? What does Buell need from Harley Davidson? Dealerships for sales and service.

Too bad Eric doesn't know that this is the best thing to happen to him. He should distance himself from Harley Davidson, which caters to aging baby-boomers (but not me).

Maybe he should become the first American motorcycle company to sell motorcycles and parts directly off the internet. Or at least join with dealerships from a smaller company with a similar sporty engine, like Aprilia or Ducati.

I suspect what Buell needs from H-D is cash. I doubt they are making a profit. What are the odds of them successfully setting up their own manufacturing and dealership network when they can't make money without having to do those things?

Additionally, with the state the motorcycle business is in right now, how many people are lining up to spend the cash necessary to start carrying Buell when H-D can't manage to sell the bikes?

Most manufacturers wouldn't want to go to direct internet sales. Dealers are great for a number of reasons, but the ability for a customer to touch and sit on a bike is lost over the internet. Also lost is dealers paying for inventory to exist. When inventory sits on a manufacturers floor nobody is paying for it. The last issue is nobody has yet figured out how to perform service and warranty work over the internet.

[Gas Man]

Erik won't let buell dissolve.

Harley may drop em, but he'll come through with something else. He always does..

It is a shame though. If they would have franchised them out with the Japanese dealers instead of keeping them in the Harley boutiques, they may have sold better.

I think Buell will do something to come back on its own. I doubt Eric will let it completely die.

just means marko will have something new to bitch about lol


it actually sucks, i was loving the buells and what they stood for

Dude you don't even know... I think this is going to completely devistate Marko. He is going to need a big "biz hug".

anybody else think this is just the start or things?

Honda still has a lot of new 07s on the floor.

They just happen to have a big parent company to eat the losses.

I think its just the start of things. Something more will happen.

Is there anything Harley Davidson on the 1125R? What does Buell need from Harley Davidson? Dealerships for sales and service.

Too bad Eric doesn't know that this is the best thing to happen to him. He should distance himself from Harley Davidson, which caters to aging baby-boomers (but not me).


I don't think there is any hd on the new 1125. Marko will know for sure.

I agree. I think Eric will now be able to direct design where ever he wants. Like he did with the 1125.

[Trip]

Erik Buell can't go anywhere else with his name on it or with any of the designs Buell created. Hell, Harley can sue the pants off of him if he tried to pawn off any of his ideas anywhere else that he created for Buell. Harley owns his designs and his name. HD will have to get paid to release any of this to anyone including Erik Buell. Apparently there were no worthy buyers, so it's gone.

Buell is dead in the water until Harley says so.

[Gas Man]

Unless HD allows Eric to buy out HD from the name sakes

[Trip]

Unless HD allows Eric to buy out HD from the name sakes

yep, he has to chalk up a bunch of cash to get Buell back and all the crap that comes with it. No one wants to pay their price because the brand isn't worth it at this point. It has no dealers or service centers besides Harley. Harley still has to deal with the warranties. Whoever buys the name, has to deal with all that shit and no one wants that shit right now. You may see a remergence later after parts issues and warranty service are no longer on the plate and they can start brand new without having to deal with these bikes at all, but that may be years down the road.

[Gas Man]

I dont know man. There is way too much passion in Erik Buell to let this go by the wasteside. This has been his baby from day one.

I wont admit to knowing it all but marko has told me about it. Has a book on it. I just do see Eric calling this quits.

besides you are speaking from speculation. Nobody here knows the contracts between buell and hd.

[Trip]

I wont admit to knowing it all but marko has told me about it. Has a book on it. I just do see Eric calling this quits.

besides you are speaking from speculation. Nobody here knows the contracts between buell and hd.

He isn't calling it quits, he is working for Harley now. He said it himself. I don't see him finding a financial backer to save what's left of Buell without the Harley network. The amount of cash he needs to go it alone to keep the old line going would be huge. He would have to recreate most of the dealer network and have the cash to do all the warranty shit. It's a ton of fucking money that he just doesn't have without harley. That's what took him from a boutique bike builder to what Buell is now, Harley money.

HD owns a majority stake in the Buell name/brand/designs. He is stuck. HD effectively owns everything he did with that brand including the name. He would have to start from complete scratch.

[Rider]

He isn't calling it quits, he is working for Harley now. He said it himself. I don't see him finding a financial backer to save what's left of Buell without the Harley network. The amount of cash he needs to go it alone to keep the old line going would be huge. He would have to recreate most of the dealer network and have the cash to do all the warranty shit. It's a ton of fucking money that he just doesn't have without harley. That's what took him from a boutique bike builder to what Buell is now, Harley money.

HD owns a majority stake in the Buell name/brand/designs. He is stuck. HD effectively owns everything he did with that brand including the name. He would have to start from complete scratch.

He could offer them a % of profits if they allow him to continue on their own. Release a few trademarks and patents, provide a small(proportionately) amount of cash for start up costs.... He could be on his way unless HD fears that he could never be profitable alone. Which sounds like the reason they are shutting them down. He couldn't make money even with HD backing.

He'd have to have a lot of private investors backing him for a while. Maybe the AMA will keep him afloat.... :lol

[Gas Man]

Yeah who knows... I sure hope that Eric figures something out. I don't want to see such a great platform fall aways just because of this crappy economy.

[Trip]

Yeah who knows... I sure hope that Eric figures something out. I don't want to see such a great platform fall aways just because of this crappy economy.

I think for the time being, it's gone. There is no getting around that without Harley. Erik will probably work over there and hope that this economy can improve to the point where they can have a resurrection of the brand. I don't think you will see it around for at least 10 years though, if not more.

I'll say you will probably see some new Harley models with Buell influence or design going forward though.

[CasterTroy]

I don't think you will see it around for at least 10 years though, if not more.
.

I think you're right

You may see a remergence later after parts issues and warranty service are no longer on the plate and they can start brand new without having to deal with these bikes at all

Isn't 10 years the magic required number for MFG to keep parts on a shelf?

[pdog]

Yep, this has been rumored for the last few weeks:

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/ama-dmg-harley-davidson-xr1200-kawisaki-ninja-250r-spec-racing/comment-page-1/

XR1200 racing strikes me as very close to NASCAR for motorcycles...

probably wipe out the whole dsb class for a xr1200 one make series

[Dave]

Yep, this has been rumored for the last few weeks:

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/ama-dmg-harley-davidson-xr1200-kawisaki-ninja-250r-spec-racing/comment-page-1/

XR1200 racing strikes me as very close to NASCAR for motorcycles...

didnt know i was that close to the mark, lol. actually bsb has an XR support series laid in for next year which is why i woulnd be surprised if dmg put one in as well.

By Gary Pinchin -
British Superbikes
02 October 2009 15:13


The much talked-about Harley-Davidson XR1200 series will thunder into life at BSB meetings next year.

After almost a year of development with Harris Performance, registrations have opened for next year’s ten-race, eight event series.

Competing in the series costs £13,000, including the cost of the bike, a full race kit developed by Harris and a Dunlop tyre deal and already many of the 34-strong Harley UK dealers have shown an interest in running bikes.

“Our plans to launch this race series in 2009 were perhaps a little ambitious given the short lead time available and the impact of the global recession,” said Harley-Davidson Europe’s Greg Willis.

“However, the delay has given us the opportunity to work with Harris Performance to develop a really exciting race package for the XR1200.

The feedback we’ve received from development riders (including Niall Mackenzie and Sean Emmett) has been very positive and the dealer support that we’ve received is also extremely encouraging.”

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/257845/images/XR1200_Action.jpg

[shmike]

didnt know i was that close to the mark, lol. actually bsb has an XR support series laid in for next year which is why i woulnd be surprised if dmg put one in as well.

By Gary Pinchin -
British Superbikes
02 October 2009 15:13


The much talked-about Harley-Davidson XR1200 series will thunder into life at BSB meetings next year.

After almost a year of development with Harris Performance, registrations have opened for next year’s ten-race, eight event series.

Competing in the series costs £13,000, including the cost of the bike, a full race kit developed by Harris and a Dunlop tyre deal and already many of the 34-strong Harley UK dealers have shown an interest in running bikes.

“Our plans to launch this race series in 2009 were perhaps a little ambitious given the short lead time available and the impact of the global recession,” said Harley-Davidson Europe’s Greg Willis.

“However, the delay has given us the opportunity to work with Harris Performance to develop a really exciting race package for the XR1200.

The feedback we’ve received from development riders (including Niall Mackenzie and Sean Emmett) has been very positive and the dealer support that we’ve received is also extremely encouraging.”

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/257845/images/XR1200_Action.jpg

As ghey as an HD series sounds, being able to race against identical machines on identical tires for an entire season for @ $21k?

Not a bad deal.

[goof2]

That was my thought, that sounds like a smoking hot deal to enter an 8 race deal with the cost of the bike, race kit, and tire deal included.

[pdog]

Now that Buell is gone, the XR1200 series is really the only chance DMG has to get Harley fans to the races. There's little doubt in my mind that it will happen next year. And at that price point, the field should be full.

[was92v]

Damn shame.

[tached1000rr]

Damn shame.

agreed

[zer0t]

I can only say, holy $hit.

[101lifts2]

Buell reminds me of Saturn....a company that was much more than the products they sold. Long live the legend....

[derf]

Any chance that this is part of a larger plan to trim a loosing company and at the same time have an HD branded sportbike? It wouldnt surprise me to hear that harley starts a sport line with buell tech/designs. Also I doubt that Erik Buell even has the rights to his own name anymore, i'm sure that Harley bought him out a long time ago.

[pdog]

HD has owned 100% of Buell since 1998. He does not have the rights to his own name.

Also I doubt that Erik Buell even has the rights to his own name anymore, i'm sure that Harley bought him out a long time ago.

[Dave]

Any chance that this is part of a larger plan to trim a loosing company and at the same time have an HD branded sportbike? It wouldnt surprise me to hear that harley starts a sport line with buell tech/designs. Also I doubt that Erik Buell even has the rights to his own name anymore, i'm sure that Harley bought him out a long time ago.

harley davidson VR1125. there will only be fifty and you'll only be able to buy it in poland

[tommymac]

I wonder what will happen as far as aftermarket and parts availability.

tom

[Tmall]

After market has always been really shitty.

And so has parts availability...
I say after market stays the same, and oem gets harder and harder to find.

[karl_1052]

Dunno where this is, but at that price, I don't care how ugly it is.

[Rider]

Dunno where this is, but at that price, I don't care how ugly it is.

I see Buell/HD salesmen do have a sense of humor. :lol

[z06boy]

Humm as already mentioned maybe they will resurface as a HD sportbike instead of a Buell.

[Sean]

Not sure if this has been posted yet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5i7JDNACtI

[HokieDNA01]

I saw a buell dealership in WI has the 1125R's on sale for $3,995

[z06boy]

I saw a buell dealership in WI has the 1125R's on sale for $3,995

If that's the case I'm buying one !! :lol:

[HokieDNA01]

If that's the case I'm buying one !! :lol:

Pack you bags...

http://www.ukeshd.com/

[z06boy]

Pack you bags...

http://www.ukeshd.com/

Well it does say "starting at" so I'll call and if the bike is brand new for $3995 I'll pick one up but I seriously doubt it.

However I will check local dealers to see if they match $$ first. :lol:

[Mikey]

I won't be back in the US until April, but if there are still deals like that around, I'll buy at least one.

[pdog]

Would you buy a Buick or Mercury sports car?

This is the exact reason why Toyota created Lexus and Honda created Acura. They couldn't sell luxury cars because they were perceived to be low or mid range car makers so they had to create new brands. HD will need to do something similar if they ever want to get into sport bikes.

Humm as already mentioned maybe they will resurface as a HD sportbike instead of a Buell.

[Sean]

Would you buy a Buick or Mercury sports car?

This is the exact reason why Toyota created Lexus and Honda created Acura. They couldn't sell luxury cars because they were perceived to be low or mid range car makers so they had to create new brands. HD will need to do something similar if they ever want to get into sport bikes.

You mean like create a new brand to sell sportbikes run by an ex-racer?

[RACER X]

local place supposedly has ANY buell for $7k

[goof2]

Would you buy a Buick or Mercury sports car?

If they made them and they were worth a shit I would sure as hell consider one at around ~40% of MSRP.

[RACER X]

at those prices buy 2, 1 to ride adn 1 for parts.........lol

[Gas Man]

HD has owned 100% of Buell since 1998. He does not have the rights to his own name.

I believe it was actually 83% or something like that.... its not 100%

I see Buell/HD salesmen do have a sense of humor. :lol

That's what I'm thinking! No freakin way.

[Particle Man]

that explains why my local HD dealership dropped the Buells from their floor lineup and no longer sell parts.

[RACER X]

that explains why my local HD dealership dropped the Buells from their floor lineup and no longer sell parts.

hmmm......guy called local HD place thats having the firesale and they said they'd carry parts for the next 7 yrs.........

[Dave]

Would you buy a Buick or Mercury sports car?

This is the exact reason why Toyota created Lexus and Honda created Acura. They couldn't sell luxury cars because they were perceived to be low or mid range car makers so they had to create new brands. HD will need to do something similar if they ever want to get into sport bikes.

if you told me you didnt pop a massive woodie any time you saw a big block gsx id call you a fucking liar

[karl_1052]

that explains why my local HD dealership dropped the Buells from their floor lineup and no longer sell parts.

I doubt the dealers knew. I don't think Erik knew until they brought him into HR one morning.

[Gas Man]

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/10/whats-going-to-happen-to-erik.html



We just got off the phone with Harley spokesperson Paul James. According to him, Erik Buell is in ongoing discussions with Harley about taking on an advisory roll at The Motor Company, in which capacity he'll contribute to future product design. The rest of Buell's 180 employees won't be so lucky, they'll be out on the street as of December 18, the day the Buell plant shuts down. This news will come as a shock to them, like the rest of us, they only found out about Harley killing Buell this morning.



Paul didn't have Buell sales figures to hand and we don't believe they're published by Harley, but he suggested that this year's sales were down compared to last's about the same percentage as Harley's better-than-industry-average 21.3 percent figure. Indeed, Harley isn't killing Buell because it's unprofitable, it's killing Buell because it wants to invest every last penny back into Harley to save that brand from possible failure. It's not actually sales that are Harley's biggest problem -- although they can't help -- it's the troubled finance wing. Harley's practice of giving sub-prime motorcycle loans to unsuitable candidates has bit the company in its proverbial ass, forcing Harley to borrow $1 billion in operating capitol at 15%. That's only enough money to see it through to the end of the year. So far this year, revenue at Harley is only down 17 percent, yet net income has fallen 71.4 percent.



The decision was made to shutter rather than sell Buell because it's product range and distribution network are so heavily dependent on its parent company, that there's relatively little value in the company that could be transferred to a new owner.



Asked how Harley intends to replace the customers that will now be lost to Buell's competitors and how Harley intends to expand its appeal to post Boomer generations, Paul is insistent that Harley's current range already has the ability to appeal to that audience, saying, "Keep in mind, in the U.S., H-D holds the number two share position overall (all size bikes) among young adults 35 and younger and we are the share leader in heavyweight motorcycles among this group, so we know our motorcycles appeal to young adults.



"We will continue to develop products under the Harley-Davidson brand that appeal to riders under 35 years old. That said - and while I can't discuss the specifics of future product plans - you can expect us to focus on high-impact product introductions that attract new riders and help define the future of motorcycling. We are not ruling anything in or out...we simply will pursue it through the Harley-Davidson brand."

Wes Siler. October 15, 2009 — Permalink

[Particle Man]

I doubt the dealers knew. I don't think Erik knew until they brought him into HR one morning.

Good point. I think the local guy mentioned that it just got too damn expensive to carry the franchise.

[Sean]

Well that's interesting

Sales (MRQ) vs Qtr. 1 Yr. Ago -18.02
Sales (TTM) vs TTM 1 Yr. Ago -13.25
Sales - 5 Yr. Growth Rate 4.02
EPS (MRQ) vs Qtr. 1 Yr. Ago -84.13
EPS (TTM) vs TTM 1 Yr. Ago -67.85
EPS - 5 Yr. Growth Rate 2.24

So they're down slightly and losing their shirt. Their gross margins are still higher than the industry average. Considering that so much of their sales is high-margin accessories (t-shirts and chrome junk), I would guess that the drop in earnings is not in line with the drop in sales revenue.

I think if Buell were earning money for them, they would keep the brand and just suspend R&D and marketing (inc racing). That tells me it's a money losing operation.

[z06boy]

Would you buy a Buick or Mercury sports car?



Well since that's not what we're talking about probably not but...

If I was smart enough to know it was a rebadged Buell and Erik Buell was still overseeing it I might. :idk:

[pdog]

Exactly. HD took the first step in getting into the sportbike market: create (or buy) a brand. They just failed to follow up on all the other details: go racing, use or develop competitive technology, etc...

You mean like create a new brand to sell sportbikes run by an ex-racer?

[pdog]

I have no idea what a big block gsx is but I'm sure it's very erotic. ;)

if you told me you didnt pop a massive woodie any time you saw a big block gsx id call you a fucking liar

[pdog]

Ah, a 40 year old muscle car. Nice.

[pdog]

Interesting take from the Soup.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091016expldeleted.htm

[Trip]

Nice, that pretty much describes how I feel about this to a T

[derf]

An truth to the fact that HD wand Erik Buell to stay on as consultant because they are hoping to move the xr1200 into sportbike teritory?

[goof2]

An truth to the fact that HD wand Erik Buell to stay on as consultant because they are hoping to move the xr1200 into sportbike teritory?

I like the XR, but that would be one hell of a move for that bike. If they want to do that ideally they should just bolt the XR motor in to an XB12R chassis.

[derf]

HD already has all the tooling and equiptment to make the buells, woulnt be too hard of a stretch of the imagination to see them using the already designed and produced buells used.

[Phenix_Rider]

HD already has all the tooling and equiptment to make the buells, woulnt be too hard of a stretch of the imagination to see them using the already designed and produced buells used.

And eliminate the Rotax engine no doubt.

[Phenix_Rider]

"We will continue to develop products under the Harley-Davidson brand that appeal to riders under 35 years old. That said - and while I can't discuss the specifics of future product plans - you can expect us to focus on high-impact product introductions that attract new riders and help define the future of motorcycling. We are not ruling anything in or out...we simply will pursue it through the Harley-Davidson brand."

I can't wait to see what this brings. The only Harleys that have been remotely attractive to me haven't had many HD parts. How many gixxer riders do they honestly think they can capture with low horsepower heavyweight twins?

[Dave]

I can't wait to see what this brings. The only Harleys that have been remotely attractive to me haven't had many HD parts. How many gixxer riders do they honestly think they can capture with low horsepower heavyweight twins?

who says they are gnna go after zuk sales? Maybe take a crack at bmw with an adventure sportster :lol:

[derf]

How about a vrod based sport bike?

[pdog]

Google "Roehr". Conventional wisdom is that the engine's too heavy.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/16/4382/Motorcycle-Article/2010-Roehr-1250SC-First-Ride.aspx

How about a vrod based sport bike?

[Dave]

Google "Roehr". Conventional wisdom is that the engine's too heavy.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/16/4382/Motorcycle-Article/2010-Roehr-1250SC-First-Ride.aspx

and sloooow reving.

[Gas Man]

Keep spewing and reproducing ignorance people....

[Dave]

Keep spewing and reproducing ignorance people....

whats ignorant here? i rode it. it revs slooooooow. whole bike feels maybe 600 fast at best

[HokieDNA01]

Went to the dealer today. 1125Rs are sellin for $5999. not bad

[Trip]

Keep spewing and reproducing ignorance people....

Just because you don't like the truth, doesn't mean it's ignorance. What exactly don't you agree with?

[karl_1052]

Keep spewing and reproducing ignorance people....

Keep drinking kool-aid

[tommymac]

Went to the dealer today. 1125Rs are sellin for $5999. not bad

How much were they before? If I can get something for a good deal around here I woul dpick one up for either a commuter or a track bike.

Tom

[Phenix_Rider]

How much were they before? If I can get something for a good deal around here I woul dpick one up for either a commuter or a track bike.

Tom

Well, MSRP is $12,499. For the longest time I was seeing '08s for $8,999. Wonder which year is going for $5,999? They did have some significant changes for '09.

[Dave]

Well, MSRP is $12,499. For the longest time I was seeing '08s for $8,999. Wonder which year is going for $5,999? They did have some significant changes for '09.

i wouldnt touch the early one for free. not with what micah from af1 had to say about it boiling gas on the dyno.

[HokieDNA01]

They are '09s going for $5999. Brand new

[Amber Lamps]

If that's the case I'm buying one !! :lol:

FUCK YEA! That would be a great bike for my girlfriend!!!

[Dave]

FUCK YEA! That would be a great bike for my girlfriend!!!

quiet you!

[Amber Lamps]

quiet you!


Naw for real! An 1125 for $4000? Heck, yea that would kick fucking ass! I honestly feel bad for the people that lost their jobs and I know that this will be a touchy subject for Buell and Harley faithful. believe it or not, I don't want to get into a pissing match with Buell lovers but if you take some time to check my replys to Fat Bastards Buell for sale threads you'll notice that I foresaw this very thing months ago... I knew that there was no fucking way that dealers had that many damn bikes on the lot without there being a major problem. The guys I feel sorry for, are the ones that bought one of these bikes at the beginning of the year or a few months ago for anything approaching retail. That would have to REALLY suck!!!:panic: Shit I get pissed if I fill my tank and gas goes down 2 cents a gallon!!!!

[Dave]

Naw for real! An 1125 for $4000? Heck, yea that would kick fucking ass! I honestly feel bad for the people that lost their jobs and I know that this will be a touchy subject for Buell and Harley faithful. believe it or not, I don't want to get into a pissing match with Buell lovers but if you take some time to check my replys to Fat Bastards Buell for sale threads you'll notice that I foresaw this very thing months ago... I knew that there was no fucking way that dealers had that many damn bikes on the lot without there being a major problem. The guys I feel sorry for, are the ones that bought one of these bikes at the beginning of the year or a few months ago for anything approaching retail. That would have to REALLY suck!!!:panic: Shit I get pissed if I fill my tank and gas goes down 2 cents a gallon!!!!


i hear you man but imagine the shitstorm when she jumps right over 600s to an 1125! i mean it may not be much quicker than one but you now its comin!






































:P :P :P

[OneSickPsycho]

Shit... does that mean like 11 of you motherfuckers are going to be rockin' the CR's I yearn for?

[101lifts2]

I saw a buell dealership in WI has the 1125R's on sale for $3,995

You cannot be serious?

[Gas Man]

whats ignorant here? i rode it. it revs slooooooow. whole bike feels maybe 600 fast at best

They dont reve slow nor do they rev high. They dont need to. Keep riding your inline.

Just because you don't like the truth, doesn't mean it's ignorance. What exactly don't you agree with?

You f'in people speak about things you know nothing about. You have not read a contract, do not know the agreements between Erik and HD about Buell. Most of the nay sayers haven't even rode one. And if they did, they didn't understand how to make the bike perform. Bitching about things they know nothing about. Then some come in here with some holly then thou attitude. As if their bikes dont have downfalls, break downs, etc. No bike is perfect. The buells inspired passion and yes some level of cult type following. Why cult like following... cause they were different and had to constantly defend their standing. That type of life brings upon calluses and a ruff exterior towards people that go against their grain (which I admit may be against the normal grain).

I'm simply amazed at the ignorant on goings that some people spew from their mouths.

I for one went to the dealer today. Sat on a 1125. What a nice bike. Its freakin sad. I feel like a family member died. I picked up 2 buell shirts before they are all gone. Told the parts guys I want one of the buell signs for the garage.

At the end of the day. Its simply typicall of a primarly sportbike site. Dis the non-rice bike. What the fuck ever.

[pdog]

Are you not aware that this is an Internet forum, and all that that entails? :D

I'm simply amazed at the ignorant on goings that some people spew from their mouths.

At the end of the day. Its simply typicall of a primarly sportbike site. Dis the non-rice bike. What the fuck ever.

[racedoll]

Damn. I had no idea HD owned or bought MV. News to me.

Benelli will likely get shucked off by it's Indonesian benefactor and won't likely find a buyer
Since when are we talking about guns here? :wink:

Yep, this has been rumored for the last few weeks:

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/ama-dmg-harley-davidson-xr1200-kawisaki-ninja-250r-spec-racing/comment-page-1/

XR1200 racing strikes me as very close to NASCAR for motorcycles...

DMG has completely ruined AMA.

Not sure if this has been posted yet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5i7JDNACtI

He looks worn out, defeated, whatever.

Google "Roehr". Conventional wisdom is that the engine's too heavy.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/16/4382/Motorcycle-Article/2010-Roehr-1250SC-First-Ride.aspx

I kind of like the looks of this bike, would have to see it in person and sit on it at the very least to know if I truly like it.

It is sad that they have to close and people have to lose their jobs.

[Dave]

They dont reve slow nor do they rev high. They dont need to. Keep riding your inline.



You f'in people speak about things you know nothing about. You have not read a contract, do not know the agreements between Erik and HD about Buell. Most of the nay sayers haven't even rode one. And if they did, they didn't understand how to make the bike perform. Bitching about things they know nothing about. Then some come in here with some holly then thou attitude. As if their bikes dont have downfalls, break downs, etc. No bike is perfect. The buells inspired passion and yes some level of cult type following. Why cult like following... cause they were different and had to constantly defend their standing. That type of life brings upon calluses and a ruff exterior towards people that go against their grain (which I admit may be against the normal grain).

I'm simply amazed at the ignorant on goings that some people spew from their mouths.

I for one went to the dealer today. Sat on a 1125. What a nice bike. Its freakin sad. I feel like a family member died. I picked up 2 buell shirts before they are all gone. Told the parts guys I want one of the buell signs for the garage.

At the end of the day. Its simply typicall of a primarly sportbike site. Dis the non-rice bike. What the fuck ever.

#1 9k isint high? sure you were on the right bike?
#2 the argument was whether the 1130 could cut it as a sportsbike motor. and considering its overall weight, internals weight, and output thats a big fat no. even erik said so. :gofurslf:

[Rangerscott]

I've always like the looks of the Buell other than the ones with the "face". I liked just the ones with the two headlights and shield.


I've only seen a couple being ridden in my life time so they are a rare thing to see. Sucks to die off at only 26 years old.

[Gas Man]

It's all about a dream of one guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkDT0oKIRRM&feature=player_embedded

[FT BSTRD]

Sorry for the late entry to the discussion.

If you are interested in a Buell, we do have a few left. They won't last long at the prices we are selling them for.


I believe we will see Erik Buell back in sportbike production at the end of 24 months.


Get 'em while you can.

[Amber Lamps]

It's all about a dream of one guy


Dude you are so wrong here... I'm sorry Chris but I don't remember you coming to the defense of GSXRs whenever people diss on them. You realize that fucking Suzuki was the "dream of one man" at one point right? You understand at one time there were hundreds of motorcycle brands that have gone by the wayside... Sometimes different isn't better... sometimes different is just different. Some of Erik's ideas were good, some were kooky, some are just plain pointless, none have been proven as "better".

At the end of the day, the market determines what stays and what goes. At one time the mono shock was a "crazy idea", over time it was proven to be superior... Buell had over 20 years to prove that his ideas were superior, he failed. Sport bikers are far from afraid to embrace revolutionary ideas. New ideas are what we're all about. If his ideas were that much better, his bikes would have sold like hot cakes. They weren't so they didn't.:idk:

I have said this for years and I mean it. If an American company produces a bike as good or better than mine for the same money, with the same reliability, I'll buy it!!!

[Dave]

Dude you are so wrong here... I'm sorry Chris but I don't remember you coming to the defense of GSXRs whenever people diss on them. You realize that fucking Suzuki was the "dream of one man" at one point right? You understand at one time there were hundreds of motorcycle brands that have gone by the wayside... Sometimes different isn't better... sometimes different is just different. Some of Erik's ideas were good, some were kooky, some are just plain pointless, none have been proven as "better".

At the end of the day, the market determines what stays and what goes. At one time the mono shock was a "crazy idea", over time it was proven to be superior... Buell had over 20 years to prove that his ideas were superior, he failed. Sport bikers are far from afraid to embrace revolutionary ideas. New ideas are what we're all about. If his ideas were that much better, his bikes would have sold like hot cakes. They weren't so they didn't.:idk:

I have said this for years and I mean it. If an American company produces a bike as good or better than mine for the same money, with the same reliability, I'll buy it!!!

speaking of "one guys", how bout Baba san? one could make strong arguments that he is the father of the modern litrebike class.

great interview,

http://www.visordown.com/news/images/SEP08_TADAO-BABA-HONDA6.jpg

Tadao Baba, the man who built the FireBlade, talks openly about retirement, smoking and crashing the odd Honda now and then...
Posted: 19 February 2009
by Visordown News

Image Description

Baba-san, how old are you these days?
Well the mind is 28 but my body, actually it is 64. I am now officially retired, and have been for four years. In 2004 I retired from Honda and finally handed over the Fireblade project to Kyoichi Yoshii. So now I can relax!

And what did they give you as a retirement gift?
I had a big farewell party and Honda gave me a piston from every model of FireBlade mounted on a wooden plaque. It’s on a shelf in my house, I am very proud of it and my time working for Honda.

So now you’re retired, what do you do with your new-found spare time?
Some Sundays I play golf, but golf is very, very difficult and motorcycle riding is very, very easy for me. So I like to ride more. I ride a 2002 FireBlade 954, it was the last CBR I designed, and as a total package this was the best Blade I ever made. Lovely handling, engine and power delivery, it’s my favourite bike to ride. But for the image, the first Blade is the best one. It has the best memories for me.

That original 1992 fireblade of yours. Just what was it that made it so special?
Sportsbikes of the time were fast. Whoosh! (he mimes going in a straight line with his hands) but sportsbikes were not fun in corners. No flick-flack! I wanted a bike to be fun to ride and more importantly, to go around the corners. I told people at the time this new bike would change the thinking for sportsbike design, that it would be fun both in corners and a straight line. Originally we started with a CBR750RR but we already had the VFR, so perhaps make it a 1000? No. We also had CBR1000F. Instead we saw that if we took the dimensions of a 750, use base motor but keep same bore and increase stroke it came to 893cc - so a new class was born, the 900 class.

And those holes you drilled into the upper fairing - they didn’t really do anything, did they?
Of course they did, haha! At the time Honda NSR race machines had holes in their fairings. Some say they worked and helped the machine turn quickly. On my Fireblade it just looked right. The holes that did work were on the front fender on later models. We made holes there for air to pass through and almost ‘suck’ the front wheel to the ground.

When did you start with Honda?
I started when I was just 18 years old, and that was back in 1962, haha! My first job was in the machinery section of the factory. I worked for three years making crankcases and cylinder heads for Honda’s CB72 and 77, then at 20 I moved to the R&D department. You’ve got to realise that Honda was only 10 years old when I joined, so it was a very young and exciting company to work for back then.

Did you need serious engineering skills to get into honda back in those days?
Well I didn’t go to university, just high school. So I learnt by using the machinery at Honda! All my experience is from working at the factory, learning from the people around me and using the machinery. You could say that my engineering experience was all pretty hands-on.

What’s the best bike you have ever ridden?
Well the most interesting model I’ve ridden is the Ducati 916. It was a very simple design and very exciting. I prefer the feel of an inline four, but as an engineer I found the Ducati 916 very interesting to ride and study. Italian bike’s looks are much better than the Japanese. The FireBlade’s design team spent some time studying Ducati when we were making new models. It was an inspiration for us.

So are all Japanese sportsbikes the same?
As a package Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki bikes are designed and look very similar. But the character is a little bit different. Each manufacturer studies the competition’s handling and performance, so they are similar. But our technology is different, every year it is stepped up. Kawasaki has a very strong engine, the new ZX-10R has huge power, but I think the Honda is a better package. The Kawasaki has more exciting power, but the handling I think is a little bit slow.

You have a bit of a reputation as a crasher. how many FireBlades have you crashed?
Ha, I have heard this as well! Some of Honda’s test riders think I have crashed every model of FireBlade. But I think it’s only four or five. But then I have crashed some bikes that weren’t FireBlades as well. Very embarrassing recently, I crashed a 2008 Fireblade at McLeans at Donington Park riding with Ron Haslam and a group of FireBlade owners.

The latest incarnation of the blade has a controversial look, but do you like it?
Ah, a very difficult question. Image is number one these days, and the 2008 Blade’s looks are…questioned. But the handling and character, packaged controllability, means a shorter nose was needed. The new fairing was developed for this and it gave the bike a different character. The looks are questionable, but I don’t know. Maybe next year a new image, maybe it will be more MotoGP style.

What element of the original Fireblade design gave you the most satisfaction, and why?
The concept of the first Blade is what still survives today: fun to ride, easy to control, and this is what I am most proud of. We had a sticker on the original bike - Total Control - and that was always the idea. That character, which still lives on today 16 years on, makes me very happy. The key to a good bike is that it must be fun to ride, that’s why the Blade is successful.

Finally, you’re known for liking the odd cigarette. any plans on cutting down?
Well, you know I’m supposed to be cutting down, I have made some promises to my family. But we’ll see. Just smoking a few less can’t hurt, I suppose...

[Amber Lamps]

Exactly my point! I know that some people take this shit personally. Heck, I've been known to come to the defense of GSXRs on occasion...:lol: There are plenty of people here who would celebrate if Suzuki went out of business.

[Dave]

Exactly my point! I know that some people take this shit personally. Heck, I've been known to come to the defense of GSXRs on occasion...:lol: There are plenty of people here who would celebrate if Suzuki went out of business.

not me, though it irks me that they have fallen into the no big changes dont upset the fanbase rut recently.

[Smittie61984]

If they would have franchised them out with the Japanese dealers instead of keeping them in the Harley boutiques, they may have sold better.

Then they probably would have gotten huge outcries from the Harley crowd for stealing American jobs. Despite I believe most Japanese motorcycles, ATVs, cars, etc are built in the US.

But if they allowed them to be sold in Japanese places then i think they would have done better. Maybe the Italian/British places would have been better since a potential Buell buyer would likely also look into Aprilia, Ducati, Triumph, BMW, etc.

There was a place near me called that sold Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, HD and Buell (with Kawi dealer next door and Duc dealer 5 miles away). It was the only time I've ever sat on a Buell. I've never stepped foot into a Harley dealership.

[Tmall]

And that was part of the problem. I'd never sat on one until I went to a Harley dealer as well. I was tagging along with a friend.

If he hadn't brought me, I'd probably own a Japanese bike.

That and you're low man on the totem pole when your bike cost 10k and the others in the shop are over 20k. You can feel less important to the shop.

[nhgunnut]

I am sorry for the companies passing and the loss of Jobs. My Hope is that Buell will now partner with some other Manufacturer.
Sadly I think until VERY Recently what hurt Buell a lot was the HD dealers that sold them Back in 06 I Could Not get a test ride on a new Buell anywhere. I could and did Test rIde Ducatis Aprila BMW and very major Japanese brand but Cash in Hand none of 4 Buell dealers I went to would let me ride a Bike. They looked at me like I was insane for even asking. (Wound riding a used xb12 for 4 hours that had been traded at a Japanese dealership)
This past summer that seemed to have changed (perhaps sensing that the end was near) a dealership in upstate NY offered me a test ride. I guess the chenge in attitudes was too little too late.

[Homeslice]

And those holes you drilled into the upper fairing - they didn’t really do anything, did they?
Of course they did, haha! At the time Honda NSR race machines had holes in their fairings. Some say they worked and helped the machine turn quickly. On my Fireblade it just looked right. The holes that did work were on the front fender on later models. We made holes there for air to pass through and almost ‘suck’ the front wheel to the ground.
Um, yeah.......If that concept worked, everyone else would be doing it

I liked the holes, they looked cool -----why not just admit that's all they were there for

The latest incarnation of the blade has a controversial look, but do you like it?
Ah, a very difficult question. Image is number one these days, and the 2008 Blade’s looks are…questioned. But the handling and character, packaged controllability, means a shorter nose was needed. The new fairing was developed for this and it gave the bike a different character. ...
Uh, I don't see how a shorter nose accomplishes much. Is he talking about mass centralization? Well it's not like the headlights and gauges weigh all that much, and even if they did, you could mount them further back and just extend the fairing further forward.

[No Worries]

There are two major Harley dealers near me. But there must be at least two dozen motorcycle shops near me that work exclusively on Harleys. The first dyno I ever saw was in one of those shops. If I had a Buell and couldn't do the maintenance, I wouldn't mind bring it to that shop instead of a dealer.

I think Harley screwed up. Many riders have a strong loyalty for their first bike. I know I like to stop by my Hodaka dealer now and then. But how many new riders can afford a Harley, or the huge weight? I remember when Harley sold dirt bikes. Maybe Erik should start looking at some car dealers who would love to bring in a younger crowd of buyers.

[Smittie61984]

none of 4 Buell dealers I went to would let me ride a Bike. They looked at me like I was insane for even asking. .

That's because HD dealerships are use to a bunch of mid-life crising 40 year olds who want the biggest baddest HD to brag to their friends about and haven't ridden a bicycle since they were 14 much less a high TQ heavy ass shitty handling/braking motorcycle.

The only reason I see people get to test ride triumphs/ducs/aprillia/etc is because in general people who want those bikes (or are willing to buy them) already have riding experience on top of being in their 30s or so with decent jobs to pay for the bike.

[Dave]

Then they probably would have gotten huge outcries from the Harley crowd for stealing American jobs. Despite I believe most Japanese motorcycles, ATVs, cars, etc are built in the US.

But if they allowed them to be sold in Japanese places then i think they would have done better. Maybe the Italian/British places would have been better since a potential Buell buyer would likely also look into Aprilia, Ducati, Triumph, BMW, etc.

There was a place near me called that sold Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, HD and Buell (with Kawi dealer next door and Duc dealer 5 miles away). It was the only time I've ever sat on a Buell. I've never stepped foot into a Harley dealership.

they do sell them overseas, hell europe seems to have more buells than we do and you cant watch a BSB race without seeing 5000 HD banners

Um, yeah.......If that concept worked, everyone else would be doing it

I liked the holes, they looked cool -----why not just admit that's all they were there for




i thought he did admit that they were just for looks? :lol:

[HokieDNA01]

Americans weren't the only ones that enjoyed Buells. Here is a big fan in Japan of all places...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Zm0xj4EZA&feature=player_embedded

[Dave]

Americans weren't the only ones that enjoyed Buells. Here is a big fan in Japan of all places...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Zm0xj4EZA&feature=player_embedded

goddamn that place is gorgeous. great band name too :lol: super butter dog :lol: smooth tune though

[derf]

Let me just say it again, I definatly see a Harley Davidson Buellster on the horizon

http://www.aluminum.nu/web/img/typeone_xb12s_0817_3.jpg

[Dave]

the way that horn is mounted makes it look like a promask :lol:

[derf]

the way that horn is mounted makes it look like a promask :lol:

I thought the same thing, just needs the canister hanging off the side

[CasterTroy]

has that one got a 240 kit Fred? or does it just LOOK fat :idk:

[Homeslice]

I've never been a fan of the short, jacked-up tails that seem to be popular these days, but that bike looks tits. I especially like the header pipes on Buells.



i thought he did admit that they were just for looks? :lol:

did you read it? he claims it helped "suck the front tire down" :scratch:

[derf]

has that one got a 240 kit Fred? or does it just LOOK fat :idk:

I typed xb12 in google and that was the first picture that came up, I have no clue

http://www.buellxb.com/Buells-for-Sale/Buell-Lightnings-for-Sale/FS-2005-Buell-XB12S-lots-of-aftermarket-goodies

BTW Dave, actually looking at the website where I got the pic from that was a real gas mask.

[Dave]

I've never been a fan of the short, jacked-up tails that seem to be popular these days, but that bike looks tits. I especially like the header pipes on Buells.



did you read it? he claims it helped "suck the front tire down" :scratch:

yeah i was thinking about the earlier part with the NSRs, sounds like when they first did it it was for looks but they engineered it into some sort of functionality in later models. i would assume that were that to be true they found more effective means of aerodynamic control later on

found a link that says the same stuff. aerodynamics derived from their F1 program.

http://www.quatrebras.com/motor/cbr900rrn.htm

on a side note that black red and purple looks TITS

[Rangerscott]

Just read on a local forum that Buells are 50% off. If this has already been posted, well its been post again for your convenience.

[FT BSTRD]

the way that horn is mounted makes it look like a promask :lol:

That is actually a gas mask. I'm pretty sure that I know the guy that owned that.

He ran a website called PDGMoto.com selling Buell Gauge cluster face plates.

Really good guy.

[Phenix_Rider]

If HD really wants to get their shit in gear, they need to quit axing the interesting stuff. All they're keeping and hyping is poser parking lot weekend badass bikes. I bet if they came out with something like the Royal Enfield 500, they'd get a lot more beginners and females. Price it right- the Enfield is $5k, fuel injected.

[Gas Man]

If HD really wants to get their shit in gear, they need to quit axing the interesting stuff. All they're keeping and hyping is poser parking lot weekend badass bikes. I bet if they came out with something like the Royal Enfield 500, they'd get a lot more beginners and females. Price it right- the Enfield is $5k, fuel injected.
HMMM. I don't remember you saying that to me personally? Or perhaps you should choose your words more carefully? How many actual HD riders do you know? I bet ya you wouldn't say anything close to that in a group of HD riders now would you.

Your entire POV needs some slight adjusting. But hey, what do I know... I have only been on all sides of the box. Where as you have only been on your little 650R side.

[derf]

HMMM. I don't remember you saying that to me personally? Or perhaps you should choose your words more carefully? How many actual HD riders do you know? I bet ya you wouldn't say anything close to that in a group of HD riders now would you.

Your entire POV needs some slight adjusting. But hey, what do I know... I have only been on all sides of the box. Where as you have only been on your little 650R side.

I'll say it, and I think I said something about your HD, although i think it was mostly limited to admiring the size of your mobile home top bag


Actually I really do think HD has over the past few years targeted its audience toward the middle aged upper middle class male. More than anything else they sell the image of a bad ass biker. I think they could take a much larger market share than they already have If they would diversify their lineup. The enfield wouldnt be a good bike, the buell blast would be a great bike, it was buells best selling bike until they crushed it, They are trying with their xr line, which is a cool bike in its own right, but it doesn't have the sportbike image that the 19-29 demographic usually buys in the jap big 4.

If they can sell a bike that appeals to the cool boy sportbike crowd, that has the image of a gixxer then they would break into the sport bike market. We can all agree that buells were pretty good bikes, but they didnt have the cool boy image that a gixxer has, they appealed to folks that were already in the sportbike market and liked a bike that can handle. What it comes down to is that if you create the image then you sell the bike. More people ride to look cool than to enjoy riding.

Anyway HD sells the biker image, not the bikes. (there are exceptions though, what I said is not 100% for everyone)

http://www.cyclespot.com/forums/photopost/data/595/poser.jpg

[derf]

If HD really wants to get their shit in gear, they need to quit axing the interesting stuff. All they're keeping and hyping is poser parking lot weekend badass bikes. I bet if they came out with something like the Royal Enfield 500, they'd get a lot more beginners and females. Price it right- the Enfield is $5k, fuel injected.

If HD would bring the blast back then they have a bike that appeals to the female and beginner crowd, but they already have that with the small engine sporty.They dont need a new bike to compete with the sportster, they need a cheap sportster

[pdog]

Probably the biggest issue with Buell for me personally was their terrible lineup. You had a 500cc crapcycle at the bottom end and then 900/1200cc monsters for everything else. How about a decent middleweight for the SV650 and Monster market?

[Homeslice]

If they can sell a bike that appeals to the cool boy sportbike crowd, that has the image of a gixxer then they would break into the sport bike market. We can all agree that buells were pretty good bikes, but they didnt have the cool boy image that a gixxer has, they appealed to folks that were already in the sportbike market and liked a bike that can handle. What it comes down to is that if you create the image then you sell the bike. More people ride to look cool than to enjoy riding.


HD doesn't need to get into sportbikes, they don't need to and they would fail anyway. The only thing they might want to consider is offering something for $10K or less so that younger people can afford it. Then again, why should they do anything? They are profitable enough as is.

[FT BSTRD]

I've SOLD both the sportbikes and the Chrome Couches. Completely different cultures with completely different needs.


HD isn't that different than the Big Four in the way that they progress. When was the last evolutionary leap you've seen in sport bikes?

Even the crossplane crankshaft has been met with resistence.

I remember the hue and cry when the new Ninjas came out and how "ugly" they were. Really? It was hard to even tell them apart.


Harley is the same way. Rarely do they come out with anything "new". The last two "new" things were the V-Rod and the Rocker. Both have been unmitigated failures in the eyes of HD. Are they bad bikes? No. They are just outside the small box of what the typical HD buyer wants.

From the outside, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between a 1987 Sportster and a 2010 Sportster, between a 1995 Electra Glide and a 2010 Electra Glide. Mechanically, they are vastly different. Visually, they are virtually identical.

Is there really THAT much difference between SV650 model years? You'd have to go pretty far back to have an R1 look THAT different than the current model.

The difference is in what you find "interesting". It didn't matter what Buell did, your average HD rider wasn't going to find it "interesting" (or at least interesting enough to plunk down the green to buy one).

Buell didn't "fail". It was closed by HD because it wasn't part of the core business. You will probably also see some HD models "die" because they are not part of the core business. The core is Big V-Twins. Period.

That is not a bad thing for HD. They do that very well. The question is whether there are enough people to last to keep them afloat. Yes the Baby Boomers are dying, but that dynamic is in effect for EVERY business model.

There were only 135,000 Buells manufactured since 1987. Buell was never going to stem the tide of Baby Boomer death. HD made a decision to begin to prune its branches last week. More cuts are to come. York, PA is about to be closed.

HD has $1B in debt that will need to be refinanced. The $30M Buell could generate wasn't enough to matter. MV was a black hole.

[Amber Lamps]

HD doesn't need to get into sportbikes, they don't need to and they would fail anyway. The only thing they might want to consider is offering something for $10K or less so that younger people can afford it. Then again, why should they do anything? They are profitable enough as is.

Dude, haven't you ever heard of the Sportster? $7000 for the 883 version.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/2009_Motorcycles/2009_Motorcycles.jsp#/family/sp

[derf]

HD doesn't need to get into sportbikes, they don't need to and they would fail anyway. The only thing they might want to consider is offering something for $10K or less so that younger people can afford it. Then again, why should they do anything? They are profitable enough as is.

I can agree with what you say on this. Except for one point, the reason that HD exists is to make money, and they want to make more than they already have. They do want to break into the sportbike market, thats why they own buell and MV. they just dont think they can do it with their own name, I also think that they think the HD name on a sport bike will hurt the image with the bad ass biker crowd so they dont want to risk it, but they dont mind introducing a sportish bike under the xr name.

Yes they do need to introduce an american bike under 10k, in fact they need to build a sportster type of bike that the average construction worker can buy, something cheap no frills no nothing, just and engine and 2 wheels. The blast would be the perfect bike, except it will eat into the sportster people who can just barely afford it and instead get crappy loans through HD finance, which is what got them in trouble in the first place.

Again, just my opinion

[FT BSTRD]

Probably the biggest issue with Buell for me personally was their terrible lineup. You had a 500cc crapcycle at the bottom end and then 900/1200cc monsters for everything else. How about a decent middleweight for the SV650 and Monster market?


Did you ever test ride the 900cc version?

It was Buell's middle weight. I really doubt 94HP and 74lbft of torque is anything threatening.

The 1200cc at best did 103HP.


I think the SV, stock, does 70HP.



Unfortunately, many can't see past the basics of displacement.

[FT BSTRD]

I can agree with what you say on this. Except for one point, the reason that HD exists is to make money, and they want to make more than they already have. They do want to break into the sportbike market, thats why they own buell and MV. they just dont think they can do it with their own name, I also think that they think the HD name on a sport bike will hurt the image with the bad ass biker crowd so they dont want to risk it, but they dont mind introducing a sportish bike under the xr name.

Yes they do need to introduce an american bike under 10k, in fact they need to build a sportster type of bike that the average construction worker can buy, something cheap no frills no nothing, just and engine and 2 wheels. The blast would be the perfect bike, except it will eat into the sportster people who can just barely afford it and instead get crappy loans through HD finance, which is what got them in trouble in the first place.

Again, just my opinion



Honestly, I sell to "the average construction worker" every day. They come in with rolls of bills covered in butt sweat to buy a Harley they have saved for.

They wouldn't buy a lower priced, "no frills, no nothing" bike because everyone would know it was a "no frills, no nothing" bike. The Sportsters are like Kryptonite to most. Dyna frame, Road King, Heritage, or Geezer Glide.

Otherwise, they walk out the door.

[derf]

Dude, haven't you ever heard of the Sportster? $7000 for the 883 version.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/2009_Motorcycles/2009_Motorcycles.jsp#/family/sp

Good luck finding a sporty for MSRP, well now maybe, but a year, 2 years ago they were selling for over 10k, and if you didnt want to pay that much some other poor slob would come in the next day and pay it

[derf]

Honestly, I sell to "the average construction worker" every day. They come in with rolls of bills covered in butt sweat to buy a Harley they have saved for.

They wouldn't buy a lower priced, "no frills, no nothing" bike because everyone would know it was a "no frills, no nothing" bike. The Sportsters are like Kryptonite to most. Dyna frame, Road King, Heritage, or Geezer Glide.

Otherwise, they walk out the door.

Exactly, but that brings me back to the point, HD financed as much as they can and got sucked into a ton of bad finance deals, thats where their finacial troubles are, not selling bikes, they need to price bikes that folks can afford so that HD financial doesnt have to take on bad credit deals

[Homeslice]

Dude, haven't you ever heard of the Sportster? $7000 for the 883 version.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/2009_Motorcycles/2009_Motorcycles.jsp#/family/sp

I didn't know they were so cheap.......my bad.

[FT BSTRD]

Exactly, but that brings me back to the point, HD financed as much as they can and got sucked into a ton of bad finance deals, thats where their finacial troubles are, not selling bikes, they need to price bikes that folks can afford so that HD financial doesnt have to take on bad credit deals

It's a chicken and egg. They make high priced bikes because lower priced bikes don't sell. They have to finance these high priced bikes to people who can't afford them.

In the end, there are simply not enough buyers to keep the balls spinning at HD. It's a house of cards.

[derf]

It's a chicken and egg. They make high priced bikes because lower priced bikes don't sell. They have to finance these high priced bikes to people who can't afford them.

In the end, there are simply not enough buyers to keep the balls spinning at HD. It's a house of cards.

Yup.

But give it a year or 2 and HD will be selling the same volume that they sold 2 years ago, I also truly believe that Buell (or an HD badged buellish sportbike) will have another bike out again within a 2 year window, my guess is winter of 2011-2012 you will hear news of it. Thats why Erik Buell is being kept on as a consultant. Just my opinion.

[FT BSTRD]

Yup.

But give it a year or 2 and HD will be selling the same volume that they sold 2 years ago, I also truly believe that Buell (or an HD badged buellish sportbike) will have another bike out again within a 2 year window, my guess is winter of 2011-2012 you will hear news of it. Thats why Erik Buell is being kept on as a consultant. Just my opinion.

Word from the factory folks is no HD branded sportbike, period. Test markets showed that a HD branded sportbike was a big fail.

Erik started at HD in the engineering area. He is finishing up in the engineering area.

My guess is that we will see some (more) of his design going into the XR1200 and XR1200R programs particularly if DMG creates a XR1200 race series.

[Dave]

It's a chicken and egg. They make high priced bikes because lower priced bikes don't sell. They have to finance these high priced bikes to people who can't afford them.

In the end, there are simply not enough buyers to keep the balls spinning at HD. It's a house of cards.

then when they fall over i better not have to pay to put it back up

[derf]

An truth to the fact that HD wand Erik Buell to stay on as consultant because they are hoping to move the xr1200 into sportbike teritory?

Yeh I brought that up on page 9.

Again I expect to see an xr with a rim mounted front brake, and an under slung muffler. Possibly some ingenious way of holding fuel too.

(just the front brake in this one)
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj110/trip806/TwoBitMutantBuell2.jpg

Anyway we are all arguing and agreeing with eachother

[Dave]

Yeh I brought that up on page 9.

Again I expect to see an xr with a rim mounted front brake, and an under slung muffler. Possibly some ingenious way of holding fuel too.

Anyway we are all arguing and agreeing with eachother

i bet they put it in the forks next

[derf]

i bet they put it in the forks next

Nah they would fill up the triple trees, headlights, and handlebars first

[Phenix_Rider]

HMMM. I don't remember you saying that to me personally? Or perhaps you should choose your words more carefully? How many actual HD riders do you know? I bet ya you wouldn't say anything close to that in a group of HD riders now would you.

Your entire POV needs some slight adjusting. But hey, what do I know... I have only been on all sides of the box. Where as you have only been on your little 650R side.

mmm- I'm sensing you don't like me much :tremble:

You are the exception. None of the HD people around here have ever looked at a sportbike, forget riding one. I would and have said it to them- what are they gonna do?

[Trip]

They dont reve slow nor do they rev high. They dont need to. Keep riding your inline.

You f'in people speak about things you know nothing about. You have not read a contract, do not know the agreements between Erik and HD about Buell. Most of the nay sayers haven't even rode one. And if they did, they didn't understand how to make the bike perform. Bitching about things they know nothing about. Then some come in here with some holly then thou attitude. As if their bikes dont have downfalls, break downs, etc. No bike is perfect. The buells inspired passion and yes some level of cult type following. Why cult like following... cause they were different and had to constantly defend their standing. That type of life brings upon calluses and a ruff exterior towards people that go against their grain (which I admit may be against the normal grain).

I'm simply amazed at the ignorant on goings that some people spew from their mouths.

I for one went to the dealer today. Sat on a 1125. What a nice bike. Its freakin sad. I feel like a family member died. I picked up 2 buell shirts before they are all gone. Told the parts guys I want one of the buell signs for the garage.

At the end of the day. Its simply typicall of a primarly sportbike site. Dis the non-rice bike. What the fuck ever.

HMMM. I don't remember you saying that to me personally? Or perhaps you should choose your words more carefully? How many actual HD riders do you know? I bet ya you wouldn't say anything close to that in a group of HD riders now would you.

Your entire POV needs some slight adjusting. But hey, what do I know... I have only been on all sides of the box. Where as you have only been on your little 650R side.

I was not going to push your first quote further, but I couldn't stay away with the second comment.

I've ridden a XB across the gap and gotten a knee down on one, I didn't like. I have now owned 2 - 2 cyclinder motorcycles. I have more than shown I am capable of riding these bikes.

We do know what we are talking about as far as the contract. HD has owned a 100% of Buell since 98. That includes name, designs, and pretty much everything that came out of the heads of the engineers in that time frame. That is known fact you can look up anywhere. If you want to talk about death of a family member, it was murder of the redheaded step child by the stepfather. Your own family killed off the family member, so why are you getting mad at us about it. It's in house that should piss you off. Most of the dealers hated having the bikes on their showroom floor and the service guys hated working on them. You can't get good numbers when a brand is treated that way. That's HD's fault. The bike should of never been in the same building as HDs, it needed to be in boutique dealers that sell BMWs, Aprilias, KTMs, and such where they would of been taken care of and presented to the right group of riders. Erik selling out to HD was the biggest mistake he made.

As for the rough biker image, that's shot to hell and been shot to hell for a long time. No one thinks that anymore except HD riders. And going against the grain? Really? HD is the ultimate image bike, that is the grain. You go against the grain by buying a metric and getting shunned... The bikes are owned by doctors/lawyers/engineers now. Most of them are very expensive and the 1%ers are few and far between. Mostly everyone looks at you in the same opinion of what you think of the guys in Wild Hogs. That's what happens when you market to the weekend warriors and price your bikes like they do.

I see HD riders more and more and get to experience them with the crowd of that group rising exponentially at the gap and the decreasing population of sportbikes thanks to the cops. I am more than willing to tell HD riders anything on my mind and have yelled at several in the parking lot of DG for doing something stupid, just the same as I have sportbikers. I will make fun of the Rough Riders just the same as I would whatever Harley club comes through. I am not going to go kick sand in their face at their hang out, but I have no problem making fun of them sitting in front of the store.

[RACER X]

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k222/LCall45497/SANY2209.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k222/LCall45497/SANY2210.jpg

[Rider]

With prices like that I might have to go get a XB12Ss

[Kerry_129]

I try to stay away from the Harley (and Buell) 'bashing', because it's bad form & at the end of the day it's all about what the individual rider enjoys swinging a leg over.

However, having spent a little time on an '02 Thunderbolt, I have to honestly say it was the worst bike I have ridden, from a 'sporting' perspective. Lousy wooden-feeling brakes, very clunky transmission, harsh suspension (mushy front & very 'bouncy' rear - not a good combo!), and ran out of power about the time it felt like it should be getting into the mid-range - and don't even get me started on the vibration. Now, I know they came a long way since then and I think the 1125s are far better bikes than the prior generations. I recently got a chance to ride a 1125CR recently and while I didn't find it anything to gush over, it seemed a good, capable bike with nice handling & power-delivery (the vac-assisted/delayed clutch felt good & was a nice unique feature, I thought). I believe part of the improvement was fit/finish/refinement, but the biggest factor was simply the far superior Rotax motor (again, speaking from 'sportbike' perspective). I think it was just too little, too late & it would have taken a few years to overcome the (well-deserved, IMO) negative image that most people in the 'sportbike' market hold of the earlier bikes.

It's sad that the only production sport-bike America had to offer is now dead, right after it took a huge step forward (can't help but wonder how much the adoption of the Rotax motor might have influenced the decision). I hope he gets another shot, with a mfg. that gives him much more free-reign!

[Trip]

It's sad that the only production sport-bike America had to offer is now dead, right after it took a huge step forward. I hope he gets another shot, with a mfg. that gives him much more free-reign!

Or hell, at least one that gives him a supportive dealer network.

[HokieDNA01]

Just saw this....

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-industry/buell-linked-to-takeover-bid/8513.html

[CasterTroy]

Just saw this....

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-industry/buell-linked-to-takeover-bid/8513.html

NO NO NO damnit!!! not until I get a new 1125 for $4000 and a new XB12 for $3000

[Amber Lamps]

Just saw this....

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-industry/buell-linked-to-takeover-bid/8513.html


God, in a way I'm glad but in another I hope they don't do it. Who hasn't seen a company propped up for years that should have been let go?:idk:

[Amber Lamps]

NO NO NO damnit!!! not until I get a new 1125 for $4000 and a new XB12 for $3000

:lol: I'm saying! I'm seriously considering it! Hell, I can get a Credit Union loan with about a $80/month payment!:rockwoot:

[tached1000rr]

Just saw this....

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-industry/buell-linked-to-takeover-bid/8513.html

Hmmn, they should offer stock options to the public. I would hate to see Buell go out of business so I hope something works out.

[FT BSTRD]

With prices like that I might have to go get a XB12Ss

I've got one in Cherry Bomb with you name on it. $6995.


http://www.dillonharley.com/am/listings/images/28_1.jpg

[FT BSTRD]

God, in a way I'm glad but in another I hope they don't do it. Who hasn't seen a company propped up for years that should have been let go?:idk:


Buell was profitable right up until the 15th when HD slit their throats.

[Rider]

I can pick one up locally for that price. I think 3k off MSRP is the going rate at all dealerships.

[z06boy]

Boy this thread has taken off since I was here on Friday !!

I hope they work it out somehow. I hate to see them go under to be honest.

If I was in the market for a new bike...at these prices I may would own an 1125R....assuming I could get parts and HD or someone would stand behind the warranty. :idk:

Retail for retail would I take a Buell over a Japanese liter bike (?)...no but again at the current closeout prices...I'd give it a shot.

[FT BSTRD]

Boy this thread has taken off since I was here on Friday !!

I hope they work it out somehow. I hate to see them go under to be honest.

If I was in the market for a new bike...at these prices I may would own an 1125R....assuming I could get parts and HD or someone would stand behind the warranty. :idk:

Retail for retail would I take a Buell over a Japanese liter bike (?)...no but again at the current closeout prices...I'd give it a shot.


HD will honor the warranty and is required to supply parts and service for at least the next 7 years.

[derf]

A friend of mine bought 3 1125s and an xb12 today for 18k out the door, paid in full. he thinks he can hold them over the winter and sell them for a profit in the spring.

[Dave]

A friend of mine bought 3 1125s and an xb12 today for 18k out the door, paid in full. he thinks he can hold them over the winter and sell them for a profit in the spring.

a reasonable gamble to make. I wonder if theyd let you buy it crated :lol:

[Homeslice]

A friend of mine bought 3 1125s and an xb12 today for 18k out the door, paid in full. he thinks he can hold them over the winter and sell them for a profit in the spring.

Good luck with that, considering the economy won't be any better than it is now. Hope he enjoys wasting time dealing with a bunch of craigslist tire-kickers and scam-artists.

[tommymac]

where did he buy one fred. I am getting serious about pulling the trigger on one esp for 6k or under.

I may take the plunge and head down to TN and get one to ride it back. Also got a HD dealer right up the road here so that will be easy for service I cant do myself.

tom

[FT BSTRD]

where did he buy one fred. I am getting serious about pulling the trigger on one esp for 6k or under.

I may take the plunge and head down to TN and get one to ride it back. Also got a HD dealer right up the road here so that will be easy for service I cant do myself.

tom


Please some see us. I'd love to have the opportunity to work with you.

We can pick you up at the airport.

[HokieDNA01]

You can stay at our place for the night as well Tommy

[derf]

Good luck with that, considering the economy won't be any better than it is now. Hope he enjoys wasting time dealing with a bunch of craigslist tire-kickers and scam-artists.

Thats also a side bussiness of his, he's a full time cop, lives in his parents 2nd house rent free, and trades in bikes on the side, usually he fools around with used bikes that dont run, fixes them up and resells them, but he said this was a really good deal.

I think hes gonna make out on the deal, hes not insuring them or registering them, just loaded them on the trailer and drove home, they are gonna sit in his garage for the winter under sheets and come out to play in the spring.

He picked them up somewhere in WV, made the deal online over the weekend and went down this morning. i got the call when he was loading them on the trailer to go home

[Dave]

Thats also a side bussiness of his, he's a full time cop, lives in his parents 2nd house rent free, and trades in bikes on the side, usually he fools around with used bikes that dont run, fixes them up and resells them, but he said this was a really good deal.

I think hes gonna make out on the deal, hes not insuring them or registering them, just loaded them on the trailer and drove home, they are gonna sit in his garage for the winter under sheets and come out to play in the spring.

He picked them up somewhere in WV, made the deal online over the weekend and went down this morning. i got the call when he was loading them on the trailer to go home

hes not Bob from barrington is he? that guy comes up with some of the coolest old shit. cant wait till we get the money situation more in hand so i can do some of that as well

[tommymac]

Please some see us. I'd love to have the opportunity to work with you.

We can pick you up at the airport.

The wheels are turning, I iwll shoot ya a PM either tonight or tomorrow but I think I will be booking a flight shortly ;)

Tom

[Homeslice]

I think hes gonna make out on the deal, hes not insuring them or registering them, just loaded them on the trailer and drove home, they are gonna sit in his garage for the winter under sheets and come out to play in the spring.


I may be wrong, but I've never heard of a state that allows dealerships to sell bikes to someone without registering them. Sure, he could register them as non-op, but he still has to pay sales tax on them.

[derf]

I may be wrong, but I've never heard of a state that allows dealerships to sell bikes to someone without registering them. Sure, he could register them as non-op, but he still has to pay sales tax on them.

I dont know the details, all I know is he didnt get tags because that would have cost more, and he was able to really negotiate because he bought a few of them

[Gas Man]

I'll say it, and I think I said something about your HD, although i think it was mostly limited to admiring the size of your mobile home top bag


Actually I really do think HD has over the past few years targeted its audience toward the middle aged upper middle class male. More than anything else they sell the image of a bad ass biker. I think they could take a much larger market share than they already have If they would diversify their lineup. The enfield wouldnt be a good bike, the buell blast would be a great bike, it was buells best selling bike until they crushed it, They are trying with their xr line, which is a cool bike in its own right, but it doesn't have the sportbike image that the 19-29 demographic usually buys in the jap big 4.

If they can sell a bike that appeals to the cool boy sportbike crowd, that has the image of a gixxer then they would break into the sport bike market. We can all agree that buells were pretty good bikes, but they didnt have the cool boy image that a gixxer has, they appealed to folks that were already in the sportbike market and liked a bike that can handle. What it comes down to is that if you create the image then you sell the bike. More people ride to look cool than to enjoy riding.

Anyway HD sells the biker image, not the bikes. (there are exceptions though, what I said is not 100% for everyone)



Yeah my trunk is huge and crazy... I know. But that's what I got it for.

On the age...Really? I see more guys my age getting on HD's than ever before. Look at even the apperal in the dealerships. It is geared toward the late 20 yr olds. Opposite to what most people think. Not every 19yr old goes after getting a sportbike. Lots of them go into the cruiser market. And in that market HD is king. Everybody else is just trying to bite off a piece of that pie.

And I honestly didn't buy my bike for image alone. Sure it may be a part of it but isn't every bike? I bought it cause out there in that class, other than wings there is nothing that compares.

HD doesn't need to get into sportbikes, they don't need to and they would fail anyway. The only thing they might want to consider is offering something for $10K or less so that younger people can afford it. Then again, why should they do anything? They are profitable enough as is.

There is no need to lower the price. Come on... a liter bike now is what... 12k? Your average fat boy, softtail... is only high teens.

Younger guy wants a HD... its simple.. buy used.

But you are right... why. They make enough money the way it is.


It's a chicken and egg. They make high priced bikes because lower priced bikes don't sell. They have to finance these high priced bikes to people who can't afford them.

In the end, there are simply not enough buyers to keep the balls spinning at HD. It's a house of cards.

I disagree. They are already cutting back production to compensate for sales drops with economy in the tubes.

Yup.

But give it a year or 2 and HD will be selling the same volume that they sold 2 years ago, I also truly believe that Buell (or an HD badged buellish sportbike) will have another bike out again within a 2 year window, my guess is winter of 2011-2012 you will hear news of it. Thats why Erik Buell is being kept on as a consultant. Just my opinion.

That is true... sales are down. But they are still flying off the showroom. Even in shit hole detroit area. Which if you ask me is hit the hardest in the country.

mmm- I'm sensing you don't like me much :tremble:

You are the exception. None of the HD people around here have ever looked at a sportbike, forget riding one. I would and have said it to them- what are they gonna do?

That's not it. I just don't like to see you make harsh comments based off a narrow POV. Not too mention you just saw me 2 weeks ago on my HD. And trust me... I wouldn't have a problem keeping up. They aren't old tech, slow, dumb bikes. I would have liked to see even your bike keep up with me on my trip home. Old tech? I bet you I have more new tech on my HD than you think.

A friend of mine bought 3 1125s and an xb12 today for 18k out the door, paid in full. he thinks he can hold them over the winter and sell them for a profit in the spring.

And he will make a profit on that. If I had the cash I would do the same thing.

And similar link here on the take over
http://m.passionperformance.ca/motorcycle/articles/5900/

[FT BSTRD]

We only register bikes sold in TN at the owner's request. You can only register a bike for street use once the applicable sales taxes are paid.

We sell bikes to folks out of state all the time with them leaving with just the temp tags. They are responsible for registering and tagging the bike in their home state.

We don't collect sales taxes at point of sale.


We had a guy who was looking at a bike for track use. We were going to sell it to him with a temp tag. He wasn't planning on registering it for street use, so he wasn't planning on paying sales taxes on it.

We didn't care one way or the other.

[derf]

We only register bikes sold in TN at the owner's request. You can only register a bike for street use once the applicable sales taxes are paid.

We sell bikes to folks out of state all the time with them leaving with just the temp tags. They are responsible for registering and tagging the bike in their home state.

We don't collect sales taxes at point of sale.


We had a guy who was looking at a bike for track use. We were going to sell it to him with a temp tag. He wasn't planning on registering it for street use, so he wasn't planning on paying sales taxes on it.

We didn't care one way or the other.

Just talked to him, he negotiated a total all included price, hes not sure if he paid tax, but hes gonna call and find out tomorrow, anyway, now he says hes gonna keep one of the 1125s, and he put one on craigslist as a feeler.

[Homeslice]

We only register bikes sold in TN at the owner's request. You can only register a bike for street use once the applicable sales taxes are paid.

We sell bikes to folks out of state all the time with them leaving with just the temp tags. They are responsible for registering and tagging the bike in their home state.

We don't collect sales taxes at point of sale.


We had a guy who was looking at a bike for track use. We were going to sell it to him with a temp tag. He wasn't planning on registering it for street use, so he wasn't planning on paying sales taxes on it.

We didn't care one way or the other.
But isn't the government supposed to get sales tax no matter if it's going to be a track bike or a street bike? After all, it's called sales tax, not street tax.

[FT BSTRD]

But isn't the government supposed to get sales tax no matter if it's going to be a track bike or a street bike? After all, it's called sales tax, not street tax.


Theoretically, yes. We, as the dealership, are not responsible for collection of taxes for states outside of TN.

It's why we usually (nearly always) collect taxes for sales in TN.


The buyer is responsible for the payment of the taxes in their state.

[derf]

Theoretically, yes. We, as the dealership, are not responsible for collection of taxes for states outside of TN.

It's why we usually (nearly always) collect taxes for sales in TN.


The buyer is responsible for the payment of the taxes in their state.

Talked to him again, he starting to think that he might have to pay sales tax on them before he sells them. They gave him the temp tags, a bill of sale/reciept, and a stack of papers, and they are supposed to send him the titles next week. I think he paid sales tax because you would have to pay it to get the title put in his name right? He's scared that he didnt which woudl raise the price over $1k

[Trip]

That's not it. I just don't like to see you make harsh comments based off a narrow POV.


I bought it cause out there in that class, other than Gaywings there is nothing that compares.

So it's ok for you to have a narrow point of a bike, but if we do it to your precious HDs, it's time to lay down the law? Don't bash, if you can't take the bashing yourself. Rider equality, I would take the goldwing.

[FT BSTRD]

Talked to him again, he starting to think that he might have to pay sales tax on them before he sells them. They gave him the temp tags, a bill of sale/reciept, and a stack of papers, and they are supposed to send him the titles next week. I think he paid sales tax because you would have to pay it to get the title put in his name right? He's scared that he didnt which woudl raise the price over $1k

If they sold them to him with the expectation of resale, they might not have collected the taxes.

Usually the point of collections is the point of registration with the state for street use.

Sometimes the "tax" isn't a tax. Some states don't have sales taxes on vehicles but do have a registration tax.

As an example, NC has no sales tax on vehicles but collects a 3% highway use tax. If you don't plan to use the vehicle on the roads, you don't have to register the vehicle and therefore don't pay the 3% tax.

The question is whether the titles are sent with him as the registered owner or for resale (untitled). Does he have a dealer license? If so, he probably won't have paid taxes, but you as the buyer WILL have to pay sales taxes.

[Gas Man]

You're right... I should recant that.

For what its worth...

My bil is looking at a wing.. I told him he would be gay and I would not be able to ride with him. My co worker has one and I told him the same thing.

They are nice machines... just a bit too crazy. I always say my ultra is a cadilac but a wing is a Mercades with their reverse, heat vents, expresso machines, and clothes irons.

[Trip]

Not to mention mad balance and drivability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqi7GONaco0

[Gas Man]

cant view at work... schrorry

[Amber Lamps]

Here's another group to feel sorry for...anyone who owns a Buell that wants to sell it. Good Luck with that! PC posted a '05 that's been crashed and not completely repaired and the guy wants $5500!!! Are you serious?!?!:lol: Not to mention guys who just bought one this year for around retail.

[Trip]

Here's another group to feel sorry for...anyone who owns a Buell that wants to sell it. Good Luck with that! PC posted a '05 that's been crashed and not completely repaired and the guy wants $5500!!! Are you serious?!?!:lol: Not to mention guys who just bought one this year for around retail.

Yeah, I feel bad for all the people that bought their bike for retail this year. They got royally fucked hard.

[derf]

I really think that once the current cop of new bikes sell out and you have to buy used the prices will rebound to pre-defunct-buell levels, then 20 years from now if they dont go back into bussiness (which they will), a clean bike will be highly sought after, and will command top dollar.My guess is that by spring prices will jump back up to close to what they were a week ago

[psychochild28]

Here's another group to feel sorry for...anyone who owns a Buell that wants to sell it. Good Luck with that! PC posted a '05 that's been crashed and not completely repaired and the guy wants $5500!!! Are you serious?!?!:lol: Not to mention guys who just bought one this year for around retail.

He's just getting his info here. It's high yea but at least it's a start
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-23-38-5697-0-0-0&l=1&w=23&p=38&f=5698&m=0042&d=1200017402&y=2005&ml=B&gc=MC&gtc=MC

No reason to make fun.

[tached1000rr]

I did not check each post, but anyone else notice that Marko and Smileyman have not posted? Particularly Marko is here daily.

[derf]

I did not check each post, but anyone else notice that Marko and Smileyman have not posted? Particularly Marko is here daily.

Its called denial

[Gas Man]

I really think that once the current cop of new bikes sell out and you have to buy used the prices will rebound to pre-defunct-buell levels, then 20 years from now if they dont go back into bussiness (which they will), a clean bike will be highly sought after, and will command top dollar.My guess is that by spring prices will jump back up to close to what they were a week ago

I think that is a true prediction.

I did not check each post, but anyone else notice that Marko and Smileyman have not posted? Particularly Marko is here daily.

And I don't think you will see Marko for a bit. :td:

Its called denial

:skep:

[tommymac]

I did not check each post, but anyone else notice that Marko and Smileyman have not posted? Particularly Marko is here daily.

Hes been in the corner crying :lol:

Tom

[FT BSTRD]

I was in a funk for several days following the announcement.

It's just sucky. I wouldn't blame them if they didn't feel like weighing in.

[tommymac]

I amn actualy kind of used to it since 3 of my previous/current bikes have been discontinued.

Suzuki RF900
Suzuki TL1000S
Aprilia Futura

[Amber Lamps]

So it's ok for you to have a narrow point of a bike, but if we do it to your precious HDs, it's time to lay down the law? Don't bash, if you can't take the bashing yourself. Rider equality, I would take the goldwing.


Welcome to my world...:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

He's just getting his info here. It's high yea but at least it's a start
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-23-38-5697-0-0-0&l=1&w=23&p=38&f=5698&m=0042&d=1200017402&y=2005&ml=B&gc=MC&gtc=MC

No reason to make fun.

Are you kidding? That's a great reason to make fun!!!:lol: You'll never convince me that if I was trying to sell my 2006 GSXR for what a new one costs that you guys wouldn't rag on me!!! Come on, the guy is trying to sell a damaged, used bike for what a new one goes for. Anyway, does this bike belong to your new boyfriend or what?:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

I did not check each post, but anyone else notice that Marko and Smileyman have not posted? Particularly Marko is here daily.


Yea I almost pm'd Smileyman to offer my condolences seriously... I can't imagine how he must feel...:panic:

[Amber Lamps]

I was in a funk for several days following the announcement.

It's just sucky. I wouldn't blame them if they didn't feel like weighing in.

In all honesty, what are they going to say?

[Amber Lamps]

I amn actualy kind of used to it since 3 of my previous/current bikes have been discontinued.

Suzuki RF900
Suzuki TL1000S
Aprilia Futura

Oh I've owned several bikes that they don't make anymore but it's a WHOLE different story when the entire company goes out of business!!!

[Dave]

So it's ok for you to have a narrow point of a bike, but if we do it to your precious HDs, it's time to lay down the law? Don't bash, if you can't take the bashing yourself. Rider equality, I would take the goldwing.

or the vulcan voyager, or the royal venture.




And I don't think you will see Marko for a bit. :td:



:skep:

somebody should probably check on the boy. anyone live close? should probably go get his shoelaces and anything sharp.

[Amber Lamps]

or the vulcan voyager, or the royal venture.



somebody should probably check on the boy. anyone live close? should probably go get his shoelaces and anything sharp.

WOW!!! I fucking laughed for at least 3 minutes!!!:lol:

Actually, despite our previous disagreements, I like Marko and I truly feel bad for him! That's one good thing about my GSXR forum, there's been 24/7 Buell bashing without any remorse over there!!!:lol:

[Dave]

WOW!!! I fucking laughed for at least 3 minutes!!!:lol:

Actually, despite our previous disagreements, I like Marko and I truly feel bad for him! That's one good thing about my GSXR forum, there's been 24/7 Buell bashing without any remorse over there!!!:lol:

nice, i havent even been to the kawiforum i lurk on since the news dropped

[Dave]

mostly above board sympathy. a few gems though

performance advice from a H-D rider is like asking a Priest about sex lol

:lmao:

[tommymac]

Oh I've owned several bikes that they don't make anymore but it's a WHOLE different story when the entire company goes out of business!!!

I at least came close with aprilia untill piagio bailed them out ;)

Tom

[Trip]

Welcome to my world...:lol:

Yeah, if anyone has a right to complain it's the gixxer riders. They take the most shit.

[psychochild28]

Are you kidding? That's a great reason to make fun!!!:lol: You'll never convince me that if I was trying to sell my 2006 GSXR for what a new one costs that you guys wouldn't rag on me!!! Come on, the guy is trying to sell a damaged, used bike for what a new one goes for. Anyway, does this bike belong to your new boyfriend or what?:lol:


Nope it's drewpys roommate.

My B/F doesn't own a bike.

[z06boy]

Yeah, I feel bad for all the people that bought their bike for retail this year. They got royally fucked hard.

NO KIDDING !! That would totally suck !



*edit* Wait you mean there are actually people not posting because Buell is closing it's doors ? :scratch: :?:

[Dave]

anyone else see the (probably fake) yamaha buyout rumor? Makes for some interesting hypotheticals. Personally i hope its true cause it'd stick a thumb in all those protectionist bastards eyes

[FT BSTRD]

As a Buell fan boi, I'd love a Yamaha/Buell confligration. My only concern is that this might mean Buell bits on Yamaha bikes rather than full blown Buell creations.

I'm a V-Twin guy. I've never been a fan of IL4 bikes. Buell innovations on an IL4 is probably something I wouldn't buy. Most Buell people feel the same.

There is a concerted effort by some group to save Buell. They are in negotiations with HD.

I'd see a private equity group having more luck at preserving most of the essence of Buell than Yamaha could.


I'm 99% sure the Yamaha thing is a hoax. The original poster referenced AP as the source, but there is no story anywhere on AP to back it up.

[Trip]

As a Buell fan boi, I'd love a Yamaha/Buell confligration. My only concern is that this might mean Buell bits on Yamaha bikes rather than full blown Buell creations.

:lol: That is not nearly as likely as Yamaha putting it's bits in on the Buell name.

"I do get tired of reading,'my buddy is a racer and says the Buell will never work' I always want to say 'Who the F*CK is your buddy and is he faster than Shawn Higbee?"

--Erik Buell

Apparently our friends are faster than Shawn Higbee. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!

[Gas Man]

or the vulcan voyager, or the royal venture.



somebody should probably check on the boy. anyone live close? should probably go get his shoelaces and anything sharp.

don't worry about it. I keep regular "tabs" on him thru various ways. :skep:

[Dave]

don't worry about it. I keep regular "tabs" on him thru various ways. :skep:

having a subscription to www.marcowetnwild.com doesnt count :P

[Gas Man]

Your right... and I dont. I can not reveal my sources.

[Trip]

He still is on facebook and probably will still take calls.

[Rider]

He still is on facebook and probably will still take calls.

He even replies when you send a message. :lol

[Gas Man]

F Facebook. I don't have a FB account

[Rider]

F Facebook. I don't have a FB account

We know.

[RACER X]

1125R $5500

http://www.longhornhd.com/

[z06boy]

1125R $5500

http://www.longhornhd.com/

Killer prices

[Trip]

F Facebook. I don't have a FB account

Your wife does and she is more than willing to give us updates on you. :nee:

[Adeptus_Minor]

Rode the 1125CR and 1125R today

The CR stands for 'CRamped', but the R stands for 'Rawr' :devil:
...and the sound of it under acceleration, even with the modest factory pipes.
It sounds like a parallel twin blipping it at idle, but when you crack the throttle at around 4k.. mmm....

Nice bikes, really, but I went home on my Warrior...today :whistle:

[Homeslice]

perhaps they could use less confusing model names? what's the difference between the R and the CR? which one is the full fairing one?

[shmike]

perhaps they could use less confusing model names? what's the difference between the R and the CR? which one is the full fairing one?

CR = Cafe Racer, no fairing.

[Adeptus_Minor]

CR = Cafe Racer, no fairing.

yeah, what he said.
It's funny, really. The differences between the two come down to some very slight dimensional changes and the plastic.
Yet somehow I felt kind of cramped on the CR but the R I rode next felt much more natural.
(coming from the last two+ years on a cruiser, take that as you will)

[dReWpY]

what bars were on the CR, stock the CR has a lower set of clip ones, so the reach would be longer

[Dave]

CR = Cafe Racer, no fairing.

shoulda been street fighter, not much cafe about it

[Tmall]

The cr is geared down 9% as well.

[Rider]

shoulda been street fighter, not much cafe about it

Not much street fighter in it either. The true definition of a street fighter is a highly modified bike. Geared of low end speed and built for a more upright seating position.

[Trip]

It's really just a naked sport.

[shmike]

And now we know the real reason Buell failed. :lol:

[Trip]

And now we know the real reason Buell failed. :lol:

no one knew what the fuck to make of their bikes. yeah, that's probably true actually. Take their adv version for example, WTF do you do with an adv bike that's not a big fan of gravel?

[Amber Lamps]

And now we know the real reason Buell failed. :lol:

In a way you're right! Between the HD dealers unwillingness to even sometimes show these bikes, I went into two dealerships to look at Buells and was treated poorly, and a definitive lack of ad penetration. I'm not sure how they held on this long. Not to mention all the bad press about quality issues in the past and this whole year with the negative press concerning DMG... Oh and dammit, I still have never seen any proof that his ideas were "better" than what is currently available.:idk:

[Dave]

In a way you're right! Between the HD dealers unwillingness to even sometimes show these bikes, I went into two dealerships to look at Buells and was treated poorly, and a definitive lack of ad penetration. I'm not sure how they held on this long. Not to mention all the bad press about quality issues in the past and this whole year with the negative press concerning DMG... Oh and dammit, I still have never seen any proof that his ideas were "better" than what is currently available.:idk:

lack of penetration is the definition of failure :lmao:

[dReWpY]

ride one, its a experience

[derf]

Harley was just outed as giving dealers a $5k incentive to sell off the existing stock of buells. Seems they are more motivated than I thought to distance themselfs from the buell experiment. With this news I doubt you will ever see a buell in a harley dealership again, ever. Although I still think the XR is going to get sportier over the next 2 years



http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/10/harley-paying-dealers-5000-for.html

Harley-Davidson is paying dealers a $5,000 per-bike incentive for each new Buell they sell, irrespective of model. Until now, this incentive was top secret, with dealers and Harley employees under strict orders not to reveal it to the public or media. Oops.

Last thursday, Harley announced it was killing Buell in an effort to re-concentrate its rapidly disappearing resources on the mother brand. We also wrote an obituary for Buell, brought you news of Erik's fate and uncovered news that Harley didn't bother calculating how much money it would save, if any, by killing the brand.

While neither our original source nor third-party verification know exactly why Harley is offering the incentive, it's likely that The Motor Company is eager to free itself of its franchise commitments and clear remaining stock before the Buell plant officially closes for good on December 18.

The $5,000 incentive helps explain the fire sale prices we've seen on Buells in the last five days -- as low as $4,999 for zero-mile Buell 1125CRs and similar prices for the air-cooled range -- but should help you, the consumer negotiate an even better deal. You can now walk into a showroom with the knowledge that the dealer is extremely motivated to get you to leave with a motorcycle. No matter how little you pay, they'll get $5,000, so don't feel guilty.

Of the entire Buell range, we'd most recommend the Firebolt XB12R (pictured above) and the Lightning XB12S streetfighter. These bikes are sure to become the definitive Buell motorcycles in the future and combine 250GP-like handling with the recalcitrant 103bhp, 84lb/ft air/oil-cooled 1203cc 45° v-twin. Expect supersport 600 pace with much more involvement and character.

Let us know what kind of deals you're able to get.

[Dave]

wtf. Hopefully this means they will sell the brand

[derf]

wtf. Hopefully this means they will sell the brand

It means that along with the news that HD never actually looked at the savings from stopping buell that they were already looking hard for a reason to get rid of the company, waited until the end of the riding/bike sales season. Now they sell off buell, get rid of the existing stock and rid themselfs of the bastard stepchild that they beat, raped, and left in the closet.

[Amber Lamps]

ride one, its a experience

God Dammit! I have ridden one and guess what? The sky didn't part, the fucking angels didn't sing, and I didn't leave a huge dent in the tank from a boner!!! All I wanted was to get off that uncomfortable, rattling, shaking, slow, non-braking motherfucker!!! If they are so great, why don't you own one? Oh and please don't give me that poor shit because you can probably trade even up for your bike right now.:lol:

It's amazing... forget the many,many recalls... forget the many failures, forget the numbers, forget the absolutely dismal race results, forget all of the comparisons- shit when was the last time Buell allowed one of his babies to be compared against a similarly designed bike like the Tuono, Monster, SV1000, FZ1, etc? When has his precious creation ever compared favorably against a similarly configured and sized bike?:idk: What is up with all of the excuses? His original stated goal was to take on the other manufacturers on EQUAL terms, when did that happen? It didn't and he failed to complete his mission statement. Period. Were they great bikes? Sure considering what they were and where they came from, they were great bikes but they definitely weren't "world beaters" in any sense of the words. Oh and considering that he had the backing of one of the largest motorcycle companies in the world maybe we should quit treating him like this "small visionary that took on the big boys alone".

[FT BSTRD]

The reason Buell failed is that, not surprisingly, chrome couch dealers suck at selling sport bikes.


The completely don't understand the market, the buyer, or the bike.

If you want to move a not well known and kind of odd sportbike in a buying market where there are proven, popular, and cheaper models competing, you must drag the buyer to your product and convince them to try it for themselves.


Some of you saw this at the last Nashville Super Speedway track day (under the lights).

Was there another brand represented offering free cold beer after the last Friday night session?

Was there a dealer offering really good demo test rides between sessions for anyone with a valid motorcycle license for 8 hours both Friday and Saturday?

Was there a dealer offering free dogs and chips between first and second session?


How many times have you guys been to a metric dealer only to be told "no we don't do test rides"?

If you even brushed past a Buell on our showroom floor, I had your license copied, waiver signed, and bike pushed out the front doors for a demo.


Ever been on a demo where the dealer sales man leading the ride allowed triple digits? (Ask Drewpy)


If I could get your ass on the seat, I could get the bike out the door. I had to work at it more than any other brand, but I made it happen.


HD dealers couldn't get over the mindset that if you stick a sign outside and offer coffee on Saturday that bikes would move.

Guess what, it didn't.


Now my dealership doesn't get to show how good it really could have been.

[FT BSTRD]

God Dammit! I have ridden one and guess what? The sky didn't part, the fucking angels didn't sing, and I didn't leave a huge dent in the tank from a boner!!! All I wanted was to get off that uncomfortable, rattling, shaking, slow, non-braking motherfucker!!! If they are so great, why don't you own one? Oh and please don't give me that poor shit because you can probably trade even up for your bike right now.:lol:

It's amazing... forget the many,many recalls... forget the many failures, forget the numbers, forget the absolutely dismal race results, forget all of the comparisons- shit when was the last time Buell allowed one of his babies to be compared against a similarly designed bike like the Tuono, Monster, SV1000, FZ1, etc? When has his precious creation ever compared favorably against a similarly configured and sized bike?:idk: What is up with all of the excuses? His original stated goal was to take on the other manufacturers on EQUAL terms, when did that happen? It didn't and he failed to complete his mission statement. Period. Were they great bikes? Sure considering what they were and where they came from, they were great bikes but they definitely weren't "world beaters" in any sense of the words. Oh and considering that he had the backing of one of the largest motorcycle companies in the world maybe we should quit treating him like this "small visionary that took on the big boys alone".



Psssst....


http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/8/4511/Motorcycle-Article/2009-Streetfighter-Comparo-III-Conclusion.aspx