Mexican drug cartels recruiting Texas children

[fatbuckRTO]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

Americans who use drugs that weren't produced in the US (by legal citizens) are responsible.

I think they share responsibility, absolutely. But at what point do you (generic) as a drug dealer decide you've crossed the line? Is the "War on Drugs" really so effective that they need to involve kids in their crap? Of course, they've done worse. My point is that no one is forcing Mexicans to run drugs up here, or corrupt young kids, or cut people's heads off. These are individual choices they have made.

Cut off the demand and they wouldn't have that particular in-road to the country, sure. But they would still be worthless scum, and they would find some other way to hurt people. And it would still be spilling over the border, because the US government refuses to do anything to stop it.

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

I think they share responsibility, absolutely. But at what point do you (generic) as a drug dealer decide you've crossed the line? Is the "War on Drugs" really so effective that they need to involve kids in their crap? Of course, they've done worse. My point is that no one is forcing Mexicans to run drugs up here, or corrupt young kids, or cut people's heads off. These are individual choices they have made.

Cut off the demand and they wouldn't have that particular in-road to the country, sure. But they would still be worthless scum, and they would find some other way to hurt people. And it would still be spilling over the border, because the US government refuses to do anything to stop it.

I disagree that the amount of violence would remain the same. US drug demand creates the lure of easy money. And anytime that lure exists, it causes people to move beyond the bounds of sanity, into the justification of murder. People don't just start murdering just for fun.

[tommymac]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

I disagree that the amount of violence would remain the same. US drug demand creates the lure of easy money. And anytime that lure exists, it causes people to move beyond the bounds of sanity, into the justification of murder. People don't just start murdering just for fun.

Seems like these guys take their business very seriously with all the killings and how brutal/blatant they are about it.

[Tmall]

Originally Posted by tommymac

Seems like these guys take their business very seriously with all the killings and how brutal/blatant they are about it.

They kill anybody who have ties to the opposing cartel. If you're on the payroll, you have a target on your back.

[tommymac]

Originally Posted by Tmall

They kill anybody who have ties to the opposing cartel. If you're on the payroll, you have a target on your back.

They also take out police/judges/politicians that arent on their payroll too.

[fatbuckRTO]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

I disagree that the amount of violence would remain the same. US drug demand creates the lure of easy money. And anytime that lure exists, it causes people to move beyond the bounds of sanity, into the justification of murder. People don't just start murdering just for fun.

I would direct you to exhibit A, MS-13:

Prosecutors filed three counts of murder and other charges Thursday against Edwin Ramos, 21, of El Sobrante, an alleged street gang member who police say opened fire on the Bolognas after their car briefly blocked Ramos from completing a left turn down a narrow street.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...#ixzz1b9y17JXr

MS-13 members were recruited by Mexican cartels because of their brutality. The drug trade didn't make them violent, their violence got them a place in the drug trade. They and other gangs like them were essentially born from illegal immigration and the tendency of illegal immigrants to seek their own justice apart from legal authorities.

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

I would direct you to exhibit A, MS-13:



MS-13 members were recruited by Mexican cartels because of their brutality. The drug trade didn't make them violent, their violence got them a place in the drug trade. They and other gangs like them were essentially born from illegal immigration and the tendency of illegal immigrants to seek their own justice apart from legal authorities.

Large, well-organized gangs like MS-13 wouldn't exist if illegal trades such as the drug trade didn't exist. Instead, gangs would just stay small and local, i.e. simply for the purpose of brotherhood or for protecting their rinky-dink neighborhood.

[tommymac]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

Large, well-organized gangs like MS-13 wouldn't exist if illegal trades such as the drug trade didn't exist. Instead, gangs would just stay small and local, i.e. simply for the purpose of brotherhood or for protecting their rinky-dink neighborhood.

They would still be criminal enterprises stealing cars or soem other stuff, but the drug money is so lucrative, gangs keep upping the ante to protect their turf. You get a few of these guys who are smart and/or good leaders and they can clean up while the soldiers do all the dirty work.

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by tommymac

They would still be criminal enterprises stealing cars or soem other stuff...

And with cars all starting to come with on-star and gps programs where a company can shut down a car, it'll make stealing cars pretty worthless in the not to far future.

If drugs were legal, okay I hate saying legal because it implies the government has the ability to allow us to do what we want to our body, if the prohibition of drugs were repealed (from pot to heroine and Rx pills) then we'd benefit. The dead-beat junkie who can now get smack for $.10 a gallon will OD and die anyways. So no need to worry about them there. The pot head glued to the latest episode of ATHF while eating doritos can now go get a job selling his bubonic chronic and doritos (open from 8pm-3:30am). And the pill head can stop bugging doctors, clogging up ERs, and costing tax payers money for their visit when they can stop by Bubonic Chronics for the best lortabs that money can buy (for about $10 a bottle).

And as Tommymac said, they'd be stuck robbing college kids of their iPods or shooting each other for a graffitied wall or dusty villiage or villiago (however you say villiage in spanish)

[fatbuckRTO]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

Large, well-organized gangs like MS-13 wouldn't exist if illegal trades such as the drug trade didn't exist. Instead, gangs would just stay small and local, i.e. simply for the purpose of brotherhood or for protecting their rinky-dink neighborhood.

That's a bold statement that flies in the face of my understanding of history. People always find a reason to kill each other, and smart opportunists always find a way to build empires from those conflicts.

But while we're on the subject, you said "such as the drug trade." This is a sentiment that illustrates my point: even if the drug trade didn't exist, criminal gangs would find something else to make money off of and kill people over. Illegal trades will always exist wherever there are laws.

So the question becomes, should we keep importing criminals or are the ones we have within our own borders enough? This is an open border issue. You can't bail out the floodwater until you plug the leak.